To not pay my bus fare (London bus)

[KatRee]

Got on the bus today with my 1-year-old in the pushchair and my 3-year-old, who was walking. We went through the doors at the back to get directly into the wheelchair/pushchair space.
As soon as we got on, the announcement was played: “For your child’s safety, please stay with your buggy.” There were no seats, so my eldest also had to stand with us and hold on tight to keep his balance. I needed to supervise him to make sure he was doing that.
There were people standing in the aisle, so I couldn’t easily get to the front to tap my card to pay. So I ended up not paying.
This has happened maybe 2 or 3 times before since I’ve had kids and I always feel like I’ve done something wrong! But I’m not really sure what’s expected.
Usually we either get on at the front if the aisle is clear, as I have a little pushchair that fits down it, or we get on at the back, I quickly put the brake on, my eldest sits down and I run to the front and back to tap before the bus sets off.

Was I unreasonable not to pay today?
YABU – It’s basically stealing – pay your fare!
YANBU – For the love of God woman, supervise your small children and don’t worry about depriving TfL of £1.75!

Driver told you to stay with the buggy 🤷🏼 Don't overthink it

Really? On london buses, if there's anyone standing between the driver and the wheelchair area, there is not room for a buggy to get to the driver. That's why parents with buggies frequently get on the back.

I would hope what's next is that the UK make travelling safer for all, but I won't hold my breath.

And yep, if I were starving, I would absolutely steal from a supermarket rather than genteelly starve to death.

In those circumstances, I touch my card, then step back out and go on the back. I didn't have to do this with a baby and a toddler though, which would be harder.

Tbh I live in London and have 4 children and I never got on at the back, it’s possible to board the front even when busy people will move.

Just hope that an inspector doesn't get on!

Aye right then she’ll not get it back as someone will have taken the opportunity to pocket it?????

Are those double decker buses?
A wheelchair could not gain access at the front doors on a standard London bus.
The ramp is fitted on the exit doors only.
And the tight turn makes it difficult for many pushchairs.

Agreed! I stopped travelling on them when my baby was small as it was bloody impossible

That’s a brace of terrible ideas right there.

We got on a bus from Dartford to Bluewater. On the return I couldn't seem to tap the card thing when as we got off and my 3 old was standing outside as the bus shut it doors with me on it..Fortunately someone, I've no idea who, screamed at the driver to open the door and I grabbed said child before any harm was done. Visiting the area so no idea of how it worked really and never checked my card to see what we got charged in the end. Would never let go of my child's hand on public transport since then.

Have you contacted TfL to find out the policy and how the drivers are asked to respond?

Exactly. Some people are nuts.

That’s because you have done something wrong.
I think you might be developing a little thrill from not paying, then rallying support from people on Mumsnet with a well crafted excuse to justify it.
It’s a slippery slope.
Just a thought.

I can’t really remember what the buses in Edinburgh are like and I was there so long ago they’ve probably changed, but besides the advice you’ve already been given, I would say make sure you hold on to something as soon as you get on because the drivers do not wait for you to be settled, the second the last person taps, they are off and you can easily go flying!

Lived there as well. It's fine and people do it regularly - and school kids will volunteer to help get buggies on and off and watch small children whilst the parent goes and taps in.

Just don't whine then you are fined.

YABU.

Well, I am a northerner so that’s not an issue! The issue is having to leave the children while I do it as with the amount of people I’d have to ask to move it would have taken minutes rather than seconds ( and seconds is enough for a pushchair and 3 year old to go flying on a moving bus!)

It’s absolutely fine if it was a problem the driver would have kept the bus at the stop and waited for you come up the aisle to pay. Anyone in similar situation understands. TFL gives free travel to oldies and youngsters and can afford it.

OK, so I really feel like the suggestion that I quickly leave the kids to go to the front and pay just wouldn’t have been something I could have done yesterday. As I said, that’s what I normally do, but yesterday the aisle was so busy it would have meant leaving the kids unsupervised for quite a while and I would go so far as to say they would have more likely than not have had an accident in that time as the route involved lots of turns and a steep hill, so very wobbly!

A few people suggested tapping on at the front and then getting on at the back and I’m genuinely interested in how workable and risky people think this is. Reason being (and sorry this will be long-winded!), I was diagnosed with post-natal anxiety and depression after I had my first baby. I was anxious about loads of things, but one thing was getting on the bus with the baby in the pram, as ridiculous as that might seem. I find it hard to put my finger on exactly what I was most afraid of, but I think the idea of somehow being separated from my baby was up there. And when I think of stepping on the bus and leaving the kids on the pavement I start imagining all these scenarios, like what if the driver drives off while I’m on the bus and they are not (as someone up thread said happened to them). What if my 3 year old got distracted and ran into the road (and I trust him not to do this 99% of the time, but every now and then he’ll do something really out of character that I’m not expecting and if I’m not within arms reach can sometimes be really dangerous, so I just don’t think I could bring myself to leave him even for a few seconds. Is that reasonable, or is that a sign I’m not really over the anxiety? At the time I had CBT, was on medication and also had a Homestart volunteer who took me on my first couple of bus rides with the baby. It was helpful and generally I felt 10 x less anxious than I did when my elder child was a baby, but tbh busy buses still put me really on edge and I usually avoid using the bus when busy to avoid these kind of scenarios. Yesterday was just a bit of a spur of the moment decision to take the bus because of a combination of having heavy shopping, the 3 year old being really tired and noticing it was raining and that there was a bus at the stop when we came out of the supermarket ready to head home.
Sorry that was long! I guess my question here is would I be unreasonable to leave the kids on the pavement whilst I tap in at the front? Would most people feel comfortable doing that with kids this age?
It wouldn’t have worked yesterday anyway as the driver only opened the back door for us, but I’m thinking for next time this happens.

Take the 3 year old with you and leave the buggy. Buggies really don’t randomly “go flying” on a moving bus, neither does it take minutes to move from the buggy area to the front of the bus. It’s a couple of feet.
Excuses, excuses for not paying your fare.

Extremely common in Kent to only have doors at the front and yes they are double deckers.

If there is space on the bus, you could always pay at the front if the driver, or yourself, could ask the people in the Aisle to move down the bus. They will soon do it if they realise the bus isn't going anywhere until they do. Sounds simple, but once again I suggest you contact TfL to see what the policy is. If the driver doesn't follow it then remind them of it, and report if they don't.

I had similar anxieties and getting on a bus with the buggy was something that really seemed like a huge deal to me with a baby and toddler. Also a hatred of being tutted at. If it was all clear and easy to tap in etc that was fine but the WAIT to see if that was the case was terrible. Nobody wants to sympathise or help and they assume you know what you're doing and any misdemeanour is bad behaviour/sense of entitlement when often it is just a lack of expertise and confidence.

Obviously you should pay ideally. Wheelchairs having priority is non negotiable. But you couldn't do it, good luck to any inspector squeezing down the bus, and it's over now and don't worry about it. Next time might never happen and if it does you can try to tap in at the front and get on in the middle. I would leave the pushchair on the pavement for a second but NOT the 3 yr old unless he's strapped in too or very very reliable at holding onto the buggy.

My kids do a similar thing on the train.

it is unreasonable but where we are so is the bus/train fare for under 18s!

You are chancing your hand and the consequences if caught will sting if caught. Remember your fare pays the person that drives the bus. But if they make it difficult to pay and there is no where to sit??

it's a moral maze but I think you know in your heart.