AIBU to think of course all the anti-trans posts on this website and others are leading to real life harm?

[helpfulucy]

Just seen a video of a trans woman minding her business in a train station getting horribly bullied by some Tommy Robinson wanna-be and couldn't help but think back to all the aggressive threads I've seen on Mumsnet.

Pages and pages of vilifying innocent trans people, calling them perverts and all sorts with zero evidence of anything of the sort of course would lead to people like this harassing and attacking trans people in public. I've see a few of so-called GC brigade say 'this isn't what we wanted' but it is the end, isn't it? If you do see trans people as disgusting abusive perverts trying to sneak into your changing rooms and hurt your daughter, you'd want them to be bashed in public yeah?

Am I wrong to think their chickens are coming home to roost and certain posters will want to claim they never had a hand in it all?

You're exactly right (but not in the way you think). Of course it's men who are the problem. Men who present themselves as what they believe a woman should look like are, of course, still men.

You'd have to be stupid to think that every man who calls himself a woman presents no risk to women. The evidence to the contrary is blindingly obvious.

It's men, it's always bloody men who harm us.

Why do you spend so much time focused on trans people instead of actually helping women? It's not trans people hurting them, it's not even men pretending to be trans hurting them.

You sure about that @helpfulucy? How much do you want to stake on it?

For someone who is "not trans" you're very invested in defending trans. What is your interest? You obviously have skin in the game - a trans child or relative?

And your assertion that there is no evidence that some trans "women" are indulging a fetish is patently wrong to anyone who has done cursory research on the topic. Just Google autogynephilia and read transwomen's own posts about their "gender euphoria" aka sexual arousal when indulging their fetish.

I was at a family / kids event last summer and there was a 60 year old man there dressed like Little Miss Muffet. Micro gingham dress, bonnet, Bobby socks, heels and carrying a wicker picnic basket. He was there to indulge his sexual fantasy around children and revel in the discomfort of parents. Unfortunately there was no Tommy Robinson type to put him in his place. If only.

I assume, since apparently all the anti-trans posts on MN and other websites are leading to real-life harm, then all the anti-women, anti- 'terf', anti-GC posts on other websites are doing the same to women/terfs/gc?

You know, the posts that say things like 'choke on my girl-dick', 'the only good terf is a dead terf' and so on?

Or do those posts pose no risk whatsoever, by some fevered distortion of the imagination?

Not all trans people are natal men aka transwomen, many of them are natal females, aka transmen. What happens to them if they mess with their hormones is not benign or harmless.

Imposing gender expectations on people, rather than letting them be themselves without damaging their bodies, is not harmless.

Some transwomen do have ill intentions towards women, but the suffering genderism causes to young women who feel pushed into self-identifying as transmen is distressing and a disgrace o a medical profession that has let it happen.

No idea about the transwoman you describe as an innocent victim, maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

Oh lord, the footstamping tantrums by the anti women activists rolls on. There's been straight up footstamping/punching of Harry Potter soft toys, taunts of 'how are you going to stop us?!', abuser style 'if you don't do what I want all the time, I'm going to kill myself' threats, death and rape threats if the 'silly bitches won't shut up' and of course, women are being blamed for male on male violence.

On this site alone, women expressing concerns about the erosion of their legal single sex services have faced doxxing, ddos attacks, pressure on advertisers, and the constant whine from TRA's that we shouldn't be allowed to talk.

Women won't wheesht. No matter how hard you footstamp. Sorry lads.

Nah, because to their minds we're lesser, therefore deserve the abuse that comes to us for just not wanting pornsick AGP men in our spaces.

You’ll get crucified on here. Mumsnet is horrifically transphobic.

Oh thank you. I did think there must be an absolutely sane, iron-clad reason for it and that it couldn't possibly feel like threatening behaviour from unhinged individuals.

The hypocrisy and cherry picking is absolutely fascinating isn't it?

I don't believe that you're silly enough to think the Tommy Robinsons of this world beat anyone up to please women, they like violence because it makes them feel better about themselves, because it gives them a chance to punish the people they think are below them and because they enjoy it. Once upon a time they'd have stuck to hitting the opposing football team fans, now they'll go for anyone who isn't just like them.

We are 100% pro women. Fixed that for you.

It really doesn’t come across like that tbf

It would be laughable, if it weren't so unutterably tedious and, frankly, old hat.

I suppose if you see women only as support humans for men and who don't deserve single sex services such as prisons, rape crisis services, domestic abuse refuges etc because it'll make men sad, then it would.

Based on what?

Can you post a link to any example of any actual harm being caused to trans people that you can attribute directly to posts on Mumsnet?

Women aren't allowed to think of themselves.

They've always got to think of everyone else (men) first.

This is the core problem.

Therefore when they are pro-women they will always be framed not as pro-women but anti-men.

All that's getting proven here is that transwomen are men. Hence pro-women is automatically being cast as anti-trans.

Women see straight through it!

It's great that you can see to the root of the problem and that the problem is men. I would say that's a fairly common view on mumsnet, although there are plenty of male apologists here as well.

It would be even better if women's spaces could be protected from men as well. We can but hope that things will go that way.

And highly unlikely that Tommy Robinson is a mumsnetter, although I'll be looking out for him now!

@helpfulucyadvocating for women’s spaces is not anti-trans. The real life harm has been intensified owing to TRA aggressive demands and the expectation for everyone to deny reality. Affirming approaches also means we set people up to fail as they (mostly TW) will never be able to live in this world as a woman. Any person who wants to be the opposite sex has deep seated issues that needs support. The problem we have is weirdos and fetishists have hijacked the trans agenda, which has acted as a conduit for there own perversions which is now permitted to be acted out for others to see.

I think you are taking Mumsnet posters too seriously. I get the sense that anti-trans people come on here to snark and complain and to be validated by likeminded people. I doubt they abuse trans people in public unless they find trans women in female only spaces. Which they object to on the grounds of perceived danger. It is not an accepting attitude, but it is completely understandable. I doubt they go out of their way to harass or physically hurt trans individual. At most, Mumsnetters seem to feel that they’re mentally ill or attention seeking narcissists.

Do you understand that a diagnosis of 'gender incongruence' requires that 'transvestic fetishism' be excluded first?

This is according to the ICD 11, which is the tool the NHS uses for diagnosis.

This isnt remotely controversial.

THIS.

Also, I do believe that there are lots of people becoming more aware of how certain areas of trans ideology harms women… as opposed to the trans community being touted as ‘the most marginalised group of people’ by trans rights activists - a claim that’s been proven as incorrect.

Please point out which poster on this thread has advocated harassing anyone.

Why should anyone adopt an ‘accepting attitude’ to men in women’s spaces? Humans cannot change sex, so why do these men think they should have access to spaces that don’t belong to them?

Accepting that men can be gender non confirming on the other hand, who on here doesn’t accept that?