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AIBU?

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AIBU to think Burnham’s words may haunt his premiership?

799 replies

Greyrock79 · 10/09/2026 07:16

To think that Burnham’s words are going to haunt his premiership?

‘…national security can’t come at the expense of social security…’

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
nomas · 10/09/2026 11:21

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:21

And the thread you mentioned? What’s the specific accusation

That they are a one issue poster.

5128gap · 10/09/2026 11:21

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 10:29

It’s probably not as weighty nor has the gravitas of Thatcher but it promotes discussion on what’s important.

Defence v benefits is an issue, as risks accumulate.

And the pp is right on that quote being misused.

Edited

I was responding to PP accusing 'lefties' of bringing up that quote as whataboutery by pointing out its entirely different.
The Thatcher quote is brought up by people of all persuasions who have an interest in political history or sociology. The Burnham quote is a temporary springboard for discussion of spending policy and in some cases, because people think using it without context will discredit him.
It will be highly unlikely to be a career defining moment at OP is somewhat dramatically suggesting.

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:22

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:21

That they are a one issue poster.

Which you said raises suspicions, so what’s the accusation

myjamisbetterthanyours · 10/09/2026 11:24

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2026 11:18

National security includes energy and food self sufficiency. It includes an ability to defend ourselves economically and culturally in terms of our own independence.

I am not convinced we are remotely able to do this when much of what we consume comes from China or the EU.

Trump has identified (rightly) it's all about access to resources. Trump is a business man first and foremost. We are seeing a rush by the US to control this. It's a power grab. It is ultra capitalism that is absolutely at odds with European values - he sees humans as resources not people. Resources that can be expendable.

We are not ready to wrap our heads around this. We, and many Americans of all political persuasions, still assume he sees it differently and will act in their national interest as their leader.

If he isn't remotely interested in this, then all bets are off and you would see a massive decline in US living standards for many similar to that in Russia post Soviet era.

In 2007 DH and I saw the 2008 crash incoming. (None of this nonsense that was later trotted out that no one saw it coming - they bloody did and a some people got rich by riding the market and shorting it. The fact DH and I could see it even though we were economically unable to do anything either way says a lot). I am seeing and hearing noises that make me think similar but think a crash could be worse. There are people rubbing their hands at the money making opportunities they see with this. This makes me think it's even more likely because there's all these bets now in place on how it will all unravel.

I'm holding my breathe on when the dam bursts.

I note that Burnham met the head of JPMorgan yesterday. Apparently the discussion was about taxing the banks and under the threat of a £3billion exit from the UK by JPMorgan. We've not heard anything about how the meeting went but given how the markets have been all week, I'm not convinced that it would be a favourable meeting for Burnham as I suspect all it would do is give a headache of reality check about how much freedom he has to do this. Or anything else.

They are worried about exit tax es well, according to someone from The Telegraph.

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:25

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:22

Which you said raises suspicions, so what’s the accusation

That's why it's called a 'suspicion', Eastern, precisely because it's not an accusation. I'm not going to start accusing strangers on the internet.

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:27

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:15

I think you have a point, the thread on Andy Burnham / social security / national security thread was started by a poster who only posts threads about Andy Burnham / Labour.

Like literally 95% of all their posts were about Andy Burnham. And a new joiner to MN too.

One issue posters do raise suspicions for me.

I think that might be me! I'm not a new joiner. I name change quite a bit otherwise people use AI to analysis your posts, as if finding that you once agreed with something Starmer said 3 years ago is some kind of Gotcha.

Obviously most of the news at the moment is how crap Labour are doing. If you want to start threads about how well Burnham is doing feel free - but it is presumably difficult to find much to write!

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:27

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:27

I think that might be me! I'm not a new joiner. I name change quite a bit otherwise people use AI to analysis your posts, as if finding that you once agreed with something Starmer said 3 years ago is some kind of Gotcha.

Obviously most of the news at the moment is how crap Labour are doing. If you want to start threads about how well Burnham is doing feel free - but it is presumably difficult to find much to write!

No, it's not you. I'm not naming names.

MargoLivebetter · 10/09/2026 11:28

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:21

No it wasn't good. But now the 30 bonds are being written at 5.8%, Under Truss it spiked under Burnham it is sustained. Mortgage rates are already higher now then they were as a result of Truss, but like frogs being boiled in a pan when it happens over time no one notices. How is that better?

The facts would appear to differ. Here is a link to today's mortgage rates. All lower - https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/mortgages/

10 year British gilts did rise to their highest level in 19 years a few days ago, because oil hit over $100 dollars a barrel. I'm not sure the blame for that can be laid at Andy Burnham's feet!

MoneyfactsCompare

Best Mortgage Rates UK | Updated Throughout the Day

Updated throughout the day, compare the best deals for remortgaging, moving home, first time buyer, buy to let, and many more.

https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/mortgages/

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:28

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:27

I think that might be me! I'm not a new joiner. I name change quite a bit otherwise people use AI to analysis your posts, as if finding that you once agreed with something Starmer said 3 years ago is some kind of Gotcha.

Obviously most of the news at the moment is how crap Labour are doing. If you want to start threads about how well Burnham is doing feel free - but it is presumably difficult to find much to write!

In fact I'm going to change again soon since disappointingly Binny fail to win so my name is a bit out of date.

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:28

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:25

That's why it's called a 'suspicion', Eastern, precisely because it's not an accusation. I'm not going to start accusing strangers on the internet.

Well you are with that post. Just let people be or take it up with mnhq. Labour are not immune to criticism as much as that gets to some below.

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:29

MargoLivebetter · 10/09/2026 11:28

The facts would appear to differ. Here is a link to today's mortgage rates. All lower - https://moneyfactscompare.co.uk/mortgages/

10 year British gilts did rise to their highest level in 19 years a few days ago, because oil hit over $100 dollars a barrel. I'm not sure the blame for that can be laid at Andy Burnham's feet!

Well comparing the best with average is always going to look good.

5128gap · 10/09/2026 11:31

Pluto46 · 10/09/2026 10:35

Re Thatcher's interview - pretty insightful isn't it...shame more people don't reflect on it

I had more than enough of Thatcher at the time without feeling the need to reflect on interviews with her thank you.
The quote is interesting for the idea expressed. In a similar vein to 'he who owns the youth gains the future' or 'religion is the opium of the people' in that we learn from discussing it, not from what the person expressing it is trying to teach us.

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:31

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:28

Well you are with that post. Just let people be or take it up with mnhq. Labour are not immune to criticism as much as that gets to some below.

ilovesooty made a point, I agreed with her. Are you saying I shouldn't have responded to her?

I haven't named any names precisely to 'let people be'.

I think you picking apart my observation is the opposite of 'let people be'.

MargoLivebetter · 10/09/2026 11:31

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:29

Well comparing the best with average is always going to look good.

LOL! Well you said the mortgage rates were higher and they aren't. I don't know what else I can do. Those are the facts.

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:33

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:31

ilovesooty made a point, I agreed with her. Are you saying I shouldn't have responded to her?

I haven't named any names precisely to 'let people be'.

I think you picking apart my observation is the opposite of 'let people be'.

If you’re ‘suspicious’ about a poster take it up with mnhq.

SevenYellowHammers · 10/09/2026 11:33

5128gap · 10/09/2026 11:31

I had more than enough of Thatcher at the time without feeling the need to reflect on interviews with her thank you.
The quote is interesting for the idea expressed. In a similar vein to 'he who owns the youth gains the future' or 'religion is the opium of the people' in that we learn from discussing it, not from what the person expressing it is trying to teach us.

I hate it when they flash her face up on telly. They usually warn you if there are some scenes viewers will find upsetting. But not for her. It gives me a nasty turn.

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:34

5128gap · 10/09/2026 11:31

I had more than enough of Thatcher at the time without feeling the need to reflect on interviews with her thank you.
The quote is interesting for the idea expressed. In a similar vein to 'he who owns the youth gains the future' or 'religion is the opium of the people' in that we learn from discussing it, not from what the person expressing it is trying to teach us.

Agree with this, which is why Thatcher is famous the world over. The other saying I remember of hers (which is less egregious) is:

"If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something done, ask a woman"

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:34

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:33

If you’re ‘suspicious’ about a poster take it up with mnhq.

If you have an issue with posters making observations, take it up with mnhq.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2026 11:35

I think it's really worth pointing out just how much the situation has moved in the last seven days.

And all of this has been in the process since the conflict with Iran began.

What Burnham said a few week ago may well have been viable a few weeks ago.

We are now into crises management territory. Events are likely to spiral out of control much more quickly than perhaps anyone anticipated.

I actually feel for Burnham because he will get the blame - as is being demonstrated on this thread - but actually there's really nothing he could have done since becoming PM which would vastly improve where we sit now.

That's the point.

NotSurprisedReallyNow · 10/09/2026 11:36

He’s right though and he has morals and integrity.

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:38

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:34

If you have an issue with posters making observations, take it up with mnhq.

You did actually cite the starter of another thread. So this I didn’t name anyone isn’t true. It’s easy to know who started a thread.

Binnyforthewin · 10/09/2026 11:38

MargoLivebetter · 10/09/2026 11:31

LOL! Well you said the mortgage rates were higher and they aren't. I don't know what else I can do. Those are the facts.

Here nice little article that explains the difference between the average and the best for you!

Bad news for mortgage borrowers as five lenders hike rates following bond market turmoil | This is Money

Hope that helps!

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:38

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2026 11:35

I think it's really worth pointing out just how much the situation has moved in the last seven days.

And all of this has been in the process since the conflict with Iran began.

What Burnham said a few week ago may well have been viable a few weeks ago.

We are now into crises management territory. Events are likely to spiral out of control much more quickly than perhaps anyone anticipated.

I actually feel for Burnham because he will get the blame - as is being demonstrated on this thread - but actually there's really nothing he could have done since becoming PM which would vastly improve where we sit now.

That's the point.

Do you think Starmer is glad it's not in his to do list anymore?

Clubbiscuit · 10/09/2026 11:39

Lots of people are moving back to Labour under Burnham. I’m so glad we are finally sanctioning Israel. Their treatment of the Palestinians is wicked.

nomas · 10/09/2026 11:39

EasternStandard · 10/09/2026 11:38

You did actually cite the starter of another thread. So this I didn’t name anyone isn’t true. It’s easy to know who started a thread.

Nope, didn't name anyone and didn't link a thread or quote a thread.