Aibu feeling uneasy about men taking little girls to the toilet in the womens toilet?

[Fasdmama]

I've seen this a few times and I dont know what is the right thing to do.
So the other week we were at the cinema. I took my daughter to the toilet and as I was waiting for her a man came out of a cubicle with a little girl and went to wash her hands.
It got me thinking.
I feel uncomfortable a man in the womens toilet. I understand how you'd potentially feel uncomfortable taking a daughter into the mens toilets.
And the only other option in this situation was the disabled toilet but morally thats wrong.

I dont know what I feel is right in this situation so wanted to know other people's opinions.
So yabu: its right for a man to take girl into female toilets
Yanbu: he should take her somewhere else...but where?

I know how to read thanks . Am finding the same issue with your posts

Or perhaps we need to start fighting for a “family” loo where mums AND dads could take their kids in to use the toilet, change babies or potty training toddlers and pee themselves if they have a pram with them??

Ah okay - you are one of those people that think that assault by a man is motivated by interest rather than violence,

It is a little scary that people still think that way.

And this is one of those situations where the children aren’t likely to care but the adults will.

'A child too young to use the toilet is going to be the most vulnerable person in this situation'

No, they aren't. They are absolutely safe as they are with a parent, who should be responsible and have common sense. Granted if it's dads using women's toilets that may not be the case.

Reading comprehension is different from just being able to read...

It's bizarre isn't it. A bit like trans who sneer 'you think we fancy you'. Don't know and don't care. That is not the issue. Men shouldn't be in the ladies. No excuses.

This puts me in mind of the other thread about changing rooms for swimming. The guidance there is really clear - children too young to fo unaided use the facilities that match the sex of the accompanying parent, not the child. Feels like a sensible approach.

The bonus is that in many places there is a third option of either accessible facilities or single stall facilities such as in the majority of cafes. Quite a few dads of daughters I know do a lot of their child and baby care in cafes because it gets around this question.

My husband has always taken our daughters into the men's and used a cubicle. We've never worried about them noticing a man using a urinal. Now that our oldest is old enough, she goes into the ladies on her own while he waits outside. He wouldn't feel comfortable entering a ladies toilet.

Having said that, I wouldn't judge a dad who took his young daughter into the ladies if, for example, the men's was out of order or too dirty or something. I think I'd expect him to check first though or wait until it was empty. As others have suggested, more family bathrooms would be a good solution.

Vulnerable does not mean unsafe.

A child aged anything from newborn to around age 4 is absolutely going to be more vulnerable and need their needs prioritised above any one else who can get by without assistance.

It is wild that you think this isn’t the case.

I had two young girls and one young son (all now adults). I often took them out without their mum (and later on, became a single dad anyway) either all together or in various pairings/on their own.
I always took them to the gents. It wouldn't have occurred to me to go into the ladies 🤷
Mind you, people tend to look suspiciously at a man taking a little girl or boy into a cubicle anyway (and of course I understand why).
I don't do nightclubs any more, but when I did, it wasn't uncommon to find women using the gents when the ladies' loo was busy.

It’s the sex of the adult that’s relevant. A small child with their father is not in danger by going into a men’s toilet.

Well I cannot comprehend some of your posts because they make no sense . Now can you leave me alone please . I am no longer engaging with a bully

Boys don't usually sit on seats. Girls don't stand to wee and will have to make contact with the toilet seat etc. Like most women I will take my DS and DD to the cleanest toilet available.
Likewise I've seen women use the men's when the queue for the ladies is very long.
And before you ask if the men's is dirty I don't expect lone men to use the ladies as presumably men will stand and make minimal contact.

This.

I fully understand the wider issues around safe toilet access but this is not a thin end of the wedge - it’s a very very rare circumstance in which a father is making sure his daughter is safe, keeping himself as separated as possible by going into a cubicle with her. He knows what the men’s toilets are like there and presumably has taken a call it’s not a place to take a child. Fair enough.

if we want dads to take on half of the childcare we can’t punish them for doing this. Men’s toilets often involve a girl walking past many on-show adult genitals to get to a cubicle.

By now, every establishment should be providing disabled facilities with a changing table and therefore big enough for a family toilet visit if needed too.

No. This was tested in court. The judge threw it out.

Thank God I'm not alone in using common sense!

My stance isn't based on an assumption of there being a threat. It's that I feel the child has a right to have some say about what toilet they use.

what about dignity?

This!

If gormless men are taking their dc into the ladies eventually they will encounter someone who will say 'wtf are you doing?'

Teach your dh common sense, teach them to respect women's spaces and more importantly teach them to be a better role model for your kids by showing them the correct way of doing things.

More so than adults who don't want other opposite sex adults in their toilets?

Exactly, dignity for the girl wanting to use the toilet.

I generally agree with your posts but in fairness you have only repeated the well-trodden Mumsnet toilet cliches that have been done thousands of times before and haven’t really applied any nuance to relate to this specific situation.

I am as gender critical as they come and I don’t think any man should be using the women’s toilets, regardless of their “identity”. I agree that male cleaners are not ideal but accepted as they are employed by the agency and so are traceable and it’s necessary for toilets to be cleaned and sometimes women can’t do the job.

Like cleaners, I think a man with a child is also not ideal, but I can accept it out of a sense of understanding that in the real world, public spaces are not built to account for every eventuality and I think the needs of small children are more important than the comfort of others.

I would not expect this to happen often (and I have certainly never experienced it myself to my knowledge), and I wouldn’t be happy with this being done casually. But I would not have a problem with it if it meant a child was able to use a toilet safely.

You mean the 50% who don't want the opposite sex in their toilets. The other half are more open to the idea the father is just doing the best by his kid and who's only objective is to go about their business.

Again, they aren't "adult genitals on-show", just blokes discreetly weeing.

There's some bizarre ideas about what happens in the gents. Really bizarre

The father's goal is to do what's best for his daughter.
Assuming the disabled loo can't easily be accessed (happens often):
-The other women in loo can use context - this is a little girl who needs accompanying, but only dad is available
-The daughter is probably more comfortable in the women's loo
-Other small children in the loo are presumably with their parent so can be closely watched

On balance, assuming no disabled loo, I think the dad did the best in the circumstances.
The alternative is the girl uses the mens, and that feels the least preferred option, but maybe that's for the same reasons that some women don't think the dad should have used the female toilets...