Aibu feeling uneasy about men taking little girls to the toilet in the womens toilet?

[Fasdmama]

I've seen this a few times and I dont know what is the right thing to do.
So the other week we were at the cinema. I took my daughter to the toilet and as I was waiting for her a man came out of a cubicle with a little girl and went to wash her hands.
It got me thinking.
I feel uncomfortable a man in the womens toilet. I understand how you'd potentially feel uncomfortable taking a daughter into the mens toilets.
And the only other option in this situation was the disabled toilet but morally thats wrong.

I dont know what I feel is right in this situation so wanted to know other people's opinions.
So yabu: its right for a man to take girl into female toilets
Yanbu: he should take her somewhere else...but where?

There are NO different ones . Go to a different one indeed what a cop out . This is real life we are talking about not some fairytale. I bring my little boy to the women’s when I swim. Is that so awful ? Do you think he will be scarred for life if he sees a woman’s body ? Of course not . And little girls are fine as well with their dads . They are not any more vulnerable than little boys in that situation

By getting their willies out of their pants 🤷🏼‍♀️

Surely any children young enough to need it are also being supervised as they use the women’s toilets so have equal protection

You're (naturally) taking a subjective view of what is a "recognised exemption", because there is no such thing as an official list of exemptions as to which men / women can use the women's / men's loos and in what scenarios, and everyone will have their own personal ideas of what is OK and what isn't.

Ultimately we're trying to apply very strict rules (male / female loos only, absolutely no people of the opposite sex in the wrong loo) to a myriad of situations that require more nuance.

As another poster said: "there currently isn't a perfect solution that suits everyone's needs, so we need to keep working on that, rather than dividing into "camps" and calling each other snowflakes, brats, pick mes, etc etc"

FWIW I'm a big proponent of keeping loos single sex, but I'm also pragmatic enough to realise that pure, untainted single sex loos are an impossibility from a practical standpoint and that, as things stand, there will always be some element of people in the wrong sex loo.

Ok well do you think a man who needs a pee himself while with a young girl qualifies for the nuance to attend the ladies ? Or a man with both boys and girls with him ? Or furthermore just any man with any child cos of this risk of the urinals and spotting a willy

I don't think you've understood my post.

I could answer you but it doesn't matter, because you could ask 100 different people and get 100 different responses.

That's the point. There is no one single right answer.

So by your logic, you’d expect mums with little boys to take them into the men’s? If not, why not?

I know what you mean but at the same time it’s interesting that the people who are so determined that this is an acceptable exception do not seem to have an answer to these questions. Because it doesn’t make sense. I must also add that I did use the word snowflake but only when accused of being dehumanising and likening little girls to animals , which was a gross misinterpretation of what was said

But I don’t see this situation has any nuance to it at all that’s the point. Parents take their children into the toilet of their own sex. That has been the rule for eternity. My dad would never have considered taking me into the female loos when I was younger. I certainly never ever saw it happen until relatively recently .

Getting their cock out but not waving it about! Why would a child see it?

Any decent man wouldn’t go into the ladies anyway - he would take his daughter into the gents where she is unlikely to see anything inappropriate and he can supervise her.

It actually concerns me that a man would think it appropriate to go into the ladies toilet.

Not the same but my husband was in a pub on holiday with our son who was about 6 months old. He needed to change his nappy and the only changing facilities were in the women’s toilets. There was no family changing, and disabled was just toilet.

He had no choice but to go into the ladies, the women understood and I think a member of staff went in there first and sort of stood by the door to make other women aware.

And presumably if a man needs a pee he would have to take his daughter into the men’s toilets anyway.

I think people were less nervy before the whole trans trend when men decided they didn’t like us having our own facilities.

A father who respects female single sex provisions and chooses not to enter that provision is modelling respect for female people’s privacy and boundaries.

Was there nowhere else to change the nappy? Could he not have done it outside or in the car or anywhere else?

The changing facilities should be separate from the toilet facilities for this reason.

Yes - and that is what I would call a good father, rather than someone who shows their daughter that he doesn’t care about single sex spaces

"I don’t see this situation has any nuance to it at all"

Surely the many different viewpoints on this thread show that quite a lot of people think there is nuance, even if you don't agree. Even the vote is 50-50 split.

"That has been the rule for eternity"

Has it? Where is this written down? I'm being pedantic, but this is kind of the point. Saying "that's the rule" when what you mean is "this is what I'm used to" doesn't really mean a lot, especially when apparently 50% of people would disagree with you. That's not a tiny minority.

I would also expect if a father entered a female single sex toilet repeatedly at a venue, security might ask him to use the female toilet if the venue followed the EA2010 guidance.

. Lots of people would make an exception for trans women as a nuance but as clear by the law, those women are not allowed to consent on behalf of other women.

it is either a single sex space or it is not. Once a man is allowed in (for any reason without informed consent- for example cleaners) then it is no longer a single sex space.

I really don’t think it’s 50 percent in reality . The reality is that this type of thread would attract the eye of people who believe in and engage in this sort of thing . If this was what happens in reality how come I have never seen a dad with a female child in a
women’s toilet yet my husband says it’s extremely common sight in the mens? I know that’s just observational and anecdotal as well, but this thread would certainly not provide accurate data on the general consensus.

My dad was a single dad so when I was small we’d go into the disabled loos. I do think on a couple of occasions he took me into the men’s but he didn’t want to do this I guess because he didn’t want me to potentially see random dicks. Never went in the women’s.

That's basically just what I was getting at.

Adults of the opposite sex give each other privacy by being separated. Very young children of the opposite sex follow the parent to the parent's loo. This way there no adults in the wrong place.

Again, yes everyone will have different ideas of what is acceptable and what isn't. I agree. Some people would be fine with TW in the ladies, others wouldn't.

Again, there is no issue of consent when it comes to who else enters a public toilet. You don't need my consent to go in, for example, and I don't need yours. Anyone can go into any public loo without obtaining anyone else's consent.

And again, we come back to how each person defines "single sex" or "mixed sex spaces". For some people, even allowing men with an official purpose for being there (like a cleaner) means that it's no longer a single sex space. For some people, boys under the age of 8 are fine but for others they're not allowable. So where do we go from there?

I come back to: there is no one right answer, aside perhaps from making gender neutral / family loo provision mandatory in addition to single sex spaces.

Can women have absolutely nothing of their own without men inviting themselves in or women inviting them in?!
Women's toilets are for women, not men.

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who has a problem with boys under 8 being in a women’s loo? Have you ? I’d be interested to know what their reasons were and if they expect a 3 year old boy to go to the toilet solo

There are quite a number of posters on here and on FWR who say "no males in the female loos. Ever." (paraphrasing) and that allowing young boys in violates the dignity of girls who may see e.g. schoolmates in the toilet.

That means no young boys.

I don't say they're wrong or right, it's a helpful illustration though of how there is no one right answer that will please everyone.