AIBU to question a pool asking my four-year-old daughter to cover up?

[ChampagneLassie]

I took my two daughters, aged two and four, swimming at Nuffield Health. My four-year-old was wearing swimming bottoms but no top.
A staff member told me she needed to wear something “more appropriate” — apparently a bikini top or one-piece. I asked why, as a four-year-old boy would presumably be allowed to swim topless.
I said I felt this was sexualising a pre-pubescent child. The staff member replied, “I’m a mother. I’m not sexualising children.”
When I asked about the actual policy, she could only say that children had to wear “appropriate clothing”. I’m planning to contact Nuffield for clarification, but I’m interested in other parents’ views.
AIBU to question this? Would you expect a four-year-old girl to have to cover her chest?
I used AI to help make this post more readable.

Why would they be joking?

What's different about a male and females top half at 4 years old?

You must be joking.

Unless covered by law companies running facilities used by the public can enforce dress codes, clubs etc do it all the time?

Then why not a 4-year-old boy?

I don’t agree

and I speak as someone who my mum tried to bring me up to do what I wanted to do and ignore social expectations.

it gets you precisely fucking nowhere in life. Sure, we can all agree that it’s not fair that social expectations different by sex. But genuinely, being taught what they are and how to get around them is a damm sight more useful than pretending they don’t exist within your little bubble of a family and then running into them full tilt in the outside world.

i wanted to play football asa kid and I did so until the leagues had to be split because there was just too much physical difference between the (by then teens) girls and boys. I climbed trees and fell out of them on a regular basis.

but encouraging your female child to go topless on the basis that girls and boys should be the same is just asking to get them into a shit heap of trouble because

girls and boys are not the same
girls and boys are not expected to act the same and society generally deals out punishments one way or another to people who break the social rules.

i don’t blame my mum, she was genuinely trying to bring me up without the restrictions she felt she had, but it really did not do me any favours.

YANBU I think you should challenge the club policy at head office level.

In Germany this is also the case for adults now.

Its ridiculous though, if OP put her child in trunks and said she was as boy, suddenly there's no problem, which is why using adults in your examples doesn't work the same way.

I find it very hard to believe that this actually happened.

my view is that at 4 my dds would have noticed that they were the only girls in the pool without their tops covered, and would have been bothered by it.

Sex discrimination is covered by law though. There’s a reason why developed breasts should be covered, there’s no reason why male nipples can be exposed and identical female nipples can’t (because in pre pubescent children they are identical).

But I wasn’t saying the club can’t enforce it, I was saying it’s wrong and illogical that they do and wondering why anyone thought it would be a reasonable policy.

You are confusing with that movie, what is it called "Children of the Damned" or something?

Why do you feel your 4yo needs to cover up?

Nothing to do with sexualising your child, it is just the usual dress code for a swimming pool in a leisure centre.

A swimsuit is what most girls would wear.

It is a pool, not the beach.

I do not know what you mean - but I certainly couldn’t tell accurately gender between a long haired boy and long haired girl and a short haired girl and a short haired boy all dressed the same at aged 4.

I’m wondering if you’ve ever seen a 4 year old before…

This. Why would “wrestling” her out of a swimming costume be so much more onerous than pants?
It just isn’t.

I’m astounded by this response, do you actually think getting dressed and undressed into swimwear is as easy as getting dressed and undressed into a tee shirt and joggers for example?! And if so, wtf am I doing wrong? And I’m only changing myself, not a child.

I agree they are more common and think it’s more sexualising for a young DC to wear a bikini - however OP is right that it’s easier to put pants on and off than the top/straps of a swimsuit

Yes same here to be honest, mine always wore a swimsuit. When would you draw the line? 6/7/8/9?

Agreed. I wouldn't have put my dds in just bottoms at that age anywhere but the beach. I think one piece swimsuits are appropriate at any public indoor swimming pool at that age. There will come a point where they have to, so why not make it just ordinary practice instead of having to decide what age the transition is made?

I think that one piece swimming costumes are fine for little girls (as are just pants/shorts) but bikini tops are a very strange idea as they emphasise their chest area for no purpose.

I can't believe you're asking this question in good faith, I really can't.

Here's an anecdote. Many years ago we got (quietly) broken in and in the night, I heard a noise and found a strange man sleeping on the sofa [he turned out to be a neighbour with MH issues rather than a burglar]. I hurried to wake dh (then bf) to deal with him. The first thing dh did was to put on a T shirt before approaching the man.

Why? Certainly not because dh thought the man would find dh's chest sexy. So why did he do it? Dh simply said afterwards "I couldn't speak to a stranger with no top on!"

That's a type of modesty that's not sexual. Try, try to think outside your own paradigm.

Saying your 4 year is "non-gender" will get a reaction, a phone call to social services, or at the very least a ban from their swimming pool!

Not sure what you mean?
What’s so onerous about having to pull up / down the top of a child’s swimsuit?

For me personally I am not sexualising children however I wouldn’t take my 4 year old girl swimming without a full swimming costume or set. I don’t understand why you chose that but we all parent differently and that’s okay.

Not to also derail said thread but seeing as in countries ( or families) where women do not have any choice as to how they practise their faith, girls are forced to wear the hijab and forms of body covering as soon as they start their periods, it is not in doubt that one reason is the sexualisation of young girls once they start puberty and if you read more traditional Muslim advice online it will always have a reference to men’s gaze . Every country has social norms and perhaps most of us have specific ages at which we consider it’s appropriate for a dad to no longer supervises their daughters getting changed, or siblings have a bath together, or what age a girl would cover up their chest.

That"s an odd one, but I understand it, because someone with a MH difficulty who had broken into another person"s house and gone to sleep on their couch wouldn"t have noticed or cared!

I’m surprised it’s “the norm” wrestling kids in and out of swimwear is hard

Rash vests maybe, but I never found helping to get swimsuits off difficult and I was a CA at my daughters' school for a time, helping with the swimming as the school has a pool. It might take a few seconds longer than just pants but there's nothing particularly hard about it.