1st cousin marriage

[Wiseplumnet]

AIBU to ask your opinion on 1st cousin marriage?.I have read that the government is looking to ban it. I know it is more prevelent ( but declining) in the UK among people of Asian origin. I am not coming from a judgemental or racist angle. I am just interested to know how mum'snetters of all ethnicities feel about marriage between 1st cousin's. I know it used to be more common in the west at one time, apart from keeping money/property in families, people travelled less widely, so there was less choice of marriage partners.I worked with a girl ( White British) who was in a secret relationship with her 1st cousin and they are very reluctant to tell their family, so there seems to be a cultural taboo in 1st cousins being romantically involved.Genetic factors resulting in disabilities (statistically twice as many as in unrelated parents) is sometimes given as a reason for banning cousin marriage, however we have genetic screening now, and disabilities aren't always serious.As so many babies died in infancy before we had vaccines, better health care etc , it was probably difficult to differentiate whether the close relationship between parents was the cause of any disabilities their children . Speaking for myself,I can't imagine wanting to marry any of the cousins I was brought up with as they seem more like brothers to me, but I could understand why someone may be attracted to a 1st cousin who they first met as adults. Or does it give you the instant 'Yuk' ? Also is banning 1st cousin marriage the same as banning 1st cousin sexual relationships and children, or would that become illegal? Maybe there's no need for a legal ban as the tradition will just die out over time

Genetically, first cousin marriage is a terrible idea. Even if there aren't any evident problems in the first generation, you've mixed god-knows-how-many silent mutations into that child's genome. That greatly increases the chance of phenotypic disabilities / genetic conditions in the next generation. And then, same thing. The "grandchildren" generation has an even higher chance of major problems. The "great grandchild" generation yet higher. And so on. Until, like the Hapsburgs, you have an entire range of peculiar progeny carrying more or less lethal conditions.

Gene testing might avoid the worst consequences for a while but isn't really a solution. Only a few conditions are tested for, whereas inbreeding exposes unwelcome mutations across the entire genome. You'd find out the hard way what the testing had missed.

As for the "ick" factor that's been mentioned, interesting factoid there. A few years ago I read an article about genomic analysis of Neanderthal DNA which showed that they may (not proven!) have inbred a lot more than our branch of the hominin tree. I'm pretty sure I remember the authors speculating that Neanderthals may have had less of a taboo against close-relative relationships. Since they're the ones who went extinct and we're still around, maybe our superstrong ick factor had something to do with it.

Thing is, there are so many people who shouldn't have children.

How do you decide which people can/should be banned?

And what about screening? Doesn't that force people who want to get married to give away their genetic details to a a database that is capable of being misused?

What if they don't want kids? Can you get married if you get sterilised?

Don't you just end up in some dystopian future where no one has any human rights?

I don't like first cousin marriage but pragmatically, all we can do is promote awareness of the genetic issues and ensure that women who are being forced into marriage can access help.

How do you ban it?

One of the problems here, particularly with people of an Asian background, is it wouldn't stop the issue as they could still have a cultural marriage which is non legal.

This would create a different kind of problem with women who have children who are more likely to have a genetic disability being in a much more vulnerable position.

Unless you make 1st cousin marriage CULTURALLY taboo rather than legally not possible, you will continue to have an issue and well meaning laws could actually be counter productive.

"Yes it would but I’ve never seen that happen ever . First cousins seems to be the bare minimum of what is acceptable. People do not marry their brothers and sisters ."

I think what the pp may have been suggesting is the situation where two brothers from one family marry two sisters from another family. Or one brother from family A marries a sister from family B. Then a sister from family A then marries a brother from family B

That is certainly not unknown at all.

I think perhaps she was asking what would happen if their children (who would be first cousins) were then to marry each other.

Yes it should be banned! The world’s an enormous place with millions of people. Marry outside ur gene pool

Why is promoting awareness all we can do? We already ban marriage and sexual relations between certain groups. We have made sibling marriage illegal, we have made it illegal to marry a parent, it is illegal to marry a grandparent. What about first cousins is so different to the above and more in line with two adults who aren’t genetically linked?

My husband has a second cousin marriage in his family that has resulted in the death of a baby and the surviving child has severe physical disabilities. They are white British.

It's pure filth 🤢, a big ick, and massive health risks. But you are entitled to disagree.

Labour won’t ban it cos they rely on the Muslim vote.
Fact.

The problem in Asian communities is that it isn't a one off. You have generations where at each level, cousins are married to cousins. Not always first cousins to be sure, but if your family has consistently married cousins over say, ten generations, and this does happen, the risk of genetic disease is horrifically high.
Pakistani people in the UK, for example, have double the risk of children with a serious genetic disorder, and more than double the risk of genetically caused deafness. This is entirely preventable.

@ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews marrying cousins has nothing to do with Islam (quite the opposite actually) it IS cultural though. Many are moving away from it as no one wants a disabled child. As a Muslim myself, it should definitely be banned and more Muslims today are aligned with my view point than not.

sorry to disappoint

Tomahto Tomato.

It’s cultural, it’s religious. Either way it’s awful.

I would imagine this also happens within the travelling community too?

Someone in my extended family married, first cousins. They little boy was severely disabled and passed away around age 7. So yes, I think it should be banned

Well if two brothers from one family married two sisters from another family there would be no extra risk of any of them being carriers compared to the general population . It’s when there is a blood link between the 2 people in a sexual relationship the risk exists I guess.

I know a white Bristish couple who are 1st cousins. They've been married over 25 years and are very happy. Neither of them wanted children though. His side of the family were very much against it so he has been NC with them for all that time.

Immoral, creepy, and dangerous.

Through work I have come across many medical problems due to the patient being a child of first cousins. I would support a ban as it hard for the parents and the child to be left with a life of illness and caring responsibilities, which could easily be avoided if they found another partner.
I often don't think the parents realise the risks and potential life ahead of them if the child is disabled/ has multiple serious medical conditions

I know someone who married their cousin. They did grow up together and are white British. Their families seemed to accept it but I think they thought it was weird. Everyone else did. They moved counties where nobody knew them and had a very small basically family only (ha) wedding.

If we were to ban it, it would have the added advantage of maybe getting rid of the royal family - two birds with one stone.

Cousins share about 12.5% of their DNA, siblings share around 50%. That’s why cousin marriage is legal and sibling marriage isn’t. The genetic risk is higher than unrelated couples, but nowhere near the level that applies to siblings. So whilst I get your point, I am not sure its fair.

Having said that, I think I could argue for both side.

It is very common among Irish Travellers and has bad effects : low IQ, serious illnesses and syndromes. Imo another reason to ban it.

Thank you, yes @Grizzlylemming that is what I meant, but actually thinking it through a daft question…it is just two unconnected people marrying! 🫣

This is old but says 19-40% of marriages.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/study-urges-genetic-counselling-for-cousins-who-marry-1.357442

Could be a factor in the high rate of disability.

My DP's 1st cousins are married. I've always found it odd and a bit ick.

What will happen to first cousins who are already married if this comes into place? Surely the ban can't mean they're no longer married? Or is it just going to aimed at new ones?

12.5% is an average so some would share up to 25%

but regardless, in the UK societally people tend to view first cousins as very similar to siblings. This is because a huge amount of us saw our cousins semi regularly as children and so we see them as close family. Not everyone does that I accept but it is culturally a very British thing for people to know their cousins relatively well due to families only tending to have 2 children on average, even if they don’t see them regularly. The fact it feels so unpleasant is a reason to ban it on my book - others may disagree. Enforcement should be in the same vein as if someone started a relationship with their sibling.