To believe that we need to create two hundred more Grammar Schools for the Shires of England.

[redange]

To believe England needs two hundred new Grammar schools across the country and in doing this take the number of English Grammar Schools to 363.

I appreciate this is a post that is going to lead to me being called names and for posters to be looking at spelling and grammar mistakes as a means of belittlement .

Nonetheless, there must be support among some posters for the lifting of the 1998 Labour Ban on the creation of Grammar Schools where there is a desire or clear need. The only Grammar School that has been built since 1965 being the Weal Of Kent Grammar Annexe in Sevenoaks . Surely if the country is going to be able to grow economically, we need to revisit the idea of selective education across Sport, Art and academic rigour. It is also not impossible that a fairer and more equitable system of selection could be introduced alongside the 11+ exam. Thus, in doing so access to selective education should not be a 'one and only' chance. I think this is where a lot of people have problems, because they see selective education through the prism of pass or fail. Pass or Fail does not mean the same today as it meant in 1965 because firstly the advent of a single exam system of GCSE's and A levels that all pupils take or can advance to.

Have you looked at the birth rates? We're not going to be building any new schools - we're going to be closing them down. We've already lost two infants schools locally and many more are unsustainable - in a few years secondaries will be similarly affected.

Why do you think the grammar school system is needed in this day and age? Who do you think should be main beneficiaries?
Children from poor backgrounds who are smart?
Anyone smart who can’t afford private education?

Only if we have a good selection of alternative Technical schools and other schools that have a specialism like performing and visual arts as well as general education schools (ie comprehensive ones).
11 is too young though for this divide. It should be at 14.
You don't necessarily need to build new schools.
You could just have streaming into the different specialism at age 14 but on the same campus.

Sorry OP there’s a mistake in your post- while Weald of Kent girls grammar has opened a grammar annex in Sevenoaks, after that, Tunbridge Wells Boys Grammar (known locally as “tech”) opened their annex next door/on the same site a couple of years later. They’ve just had their first round of GCSEs for the annex (both Weald and “tech”/TWBG don’t have 6th form at their annex, students have to join the main school for key stage 5).

And I agree, we probably do need some more grammar options around the country, and have that as part of a conversation around offering a range of education.

Opening grammars wouldn’t necessarily have to involve building new schools and increasing the number of school places, in the same way that scrapping the 11+ didn’t mean closing all those schools and bulldozing the sites. If there’s demand for it, you take an existing school, rename it and say from next year /year after its selective entry based on a county test, not just distance.

This. One local to us is closing after getting only two kids enrolled for next year. The intake at DD’s school has halved in just a few years. Same story across the borough.

This is a suggestion not the likelihood of it every happening . They are two completely separate things so in our 'dreams' we can envisage though knowing it is not going to happen.

I also know that if so any party suggested such an ideological realignment the majority of the education establishment would come out together against it.

However, if we don't talk or argue we end up with out political discourse and not even a notion of change. Personally what we currently have with 163 Grammar Schools located in a few areas up in the North you have Lancaster the Ribble Valley Skipton, Rippon Calderdale the Wirral and Trafford. The Birmingham Grammars Rugby Stratford Lincs, Gloucestershire, Kent and Buckingham are fully selective. Sutton Bournemouth/Poole have a couple of boys/girls each Salisbury has two and Devon around 6. You can thus see if you do not live in a small number of counties access to Grammar Schools is extremely difficult. 200 more could make grammar schools accessible to every child from England and for every parent who desired one. Selective education also not need to be just around Academica but could also be used for those gifted in Sport or Art .

The advantage of a comprehensive system is that your potential is not judged and then locked in at 11. You can move in and out of ability groups as appropriate. What do you feel are the advantages of the grammar system for those who are not in the grammar schools? Because it would need to serve all students

Totally agree. All our local primaries have at least one mixed year class in the school (most have more) due to falling pupil numbers. I anticipate lots of the rural ones will close in the next 5-10 years. The local secondaries are all closing their sixth forms for the same reason, leaving pupils travelling miles to colleges.

Thank you fancy that is local knowledge !

I live in one of the only grammar school heavy areas of the UK. Hope at least one of our three children might benefit from it.

i am totally pro creating (not building necessarily) new grammar schools. You can re purpose other sites

I can't see any benefit in growing the number of grammar schools, and several disadvantages for the majority of children who will not get a grammar school place.
What do you think the benefits are for those children OP?

One idea would be to take control of out of business 'Private' Schools. They seem to be closing almost everyday at the moment.

Do you really think that poorer families with bright children are going to be able to afford the intense tutoring that has been necessitated by sharp-elbowed more affluent families in order to pass the 11+?

It’ll just be another route for already well-off families to send their kids to better schools than poor kids. Im
glad the grammar system was ditched.

Absolutely. A 10 year old who fails the 11 plus shouldn't get the same investment and opportunities as one who is academically clever and good at passing exams. We need to put our resources where we will get returns, not share them out!

From a grammar alumnus who's still good at passing exams.

Try doing this out of London and major cities where you then have to bus children to a school they can no longer walk to.

What do grammars offer which good comprehensives don't? All my four DCs went to the local comprehensive, which is good, and did well. It was a suitable stepping stone for the next stage of life.

These days, most pupils attending grammar schools have had a LOT of tutoring (starting from year 4 in some cases). It's only available to those who can afford to pay. And then it creams off these well off families so the local state schools become worse.

Does being able to pass exams reliably equate to giving us returns as an adult these days, though?

IMO the grammar system works well in NI.
The problems people discuss in England with regards to grammars, such as moving home to get in etc just don’t take place here.

Almost 45% of children are educated at grammar schools so it’s in no way a tiny elite that need huge funds and tutoring to access it.

How about we improve education for eveyone ?
Not everyone is academic
Yet as it stands atc the moment most kids are expected to sit GCSEs at 16 wether its suitable for them or not .
The original premis of the tripartite system wss a good one but in reality it only reallly worked for those thst attended Grammar schools .

What are the schools like for the rest?

Kids in Trafford start to get tutors in Y2.

But I know of kids outside Trafford who are still tutored in primary and some who are definitely tutored to pass GCSEs in maths and English at comps - also middle class.

So I think the pointy elbow of tutors is seeping across the board in middle class areas. The fear of failing to get a 4 or 5 in GCSEs is already happening. There is an increasing pressure already which poorer families can't compete with.

Let write kids off at 10/11🙄🙄

No thanks. I’d rather phase out those we do have but I am not really a fan of two tier education skewed towards those with access to tutors.