Do you agree with school absence fines?

[Dreamyseptember]

I honestly don’t have a strong opinion either way. I work term time so I can only go away in the school holidays anyway, plus I’ve never been keen on mine missing school.

However, I can totally understand why for many people they want to go on holiday during term time. A family holiday can be a magical experience, visiting somewhere new, spending proper time together, experiencing new things, getting away from the daily grind. And for many this would be unaffordable in the school holidays. The other thing is that parents can’t always get the time off work.

I do think it’s important for children to attend school, I know they missing large chunks at school can mean them falling behind, miss out on learning as well as time with friends.

But tbh, I know people whose children missing large chunks school frequently anyway. Any sniffle, tired day, weather too hot or too cold and the parents are ringing them on sick. There are other children who attend 100% of the time and is one week away for a family holiday, possibly at a time of year when learning is wrapping up anyway, going to really make that much difference.

When I was at school in the 80s/90s it was quite normal for children to disappear for 2 weeks for a holiday abroad and no one batted an eyelid.

I’m sure that there are lots of arguments either way but do you think it’s right and fair that parents are fined for taking their children on holiday during term time?

Yabu - the fines are correct
Yanbu - it should be the parents decision

I'm of the view that the state don't own my children. I sent a child to school voluntarily. Obviously attendance under a certain level should be discussed. But never a fine. It's just a money making scheme.

No, I think it's ridiculous. My DC still had term time holidays during primary school, the school were actually really supportive of it and said they know it won't make any difference to their education. I chose not to take them from year 10 as I do believe that would impact them. That decision had nothing to do with fines, even with the fines it is much cheaper to go on holiday term time so they are no deterrent.
The attendance issues that do impact are persistent absences, which a fine goes no way to prevent. These are usually children either with chronic illness/disability who absolutely shouldn't be penalised, or children with social/emotional difficulties who require a very different approach. They need support not fines adding additional stress to an already tense family situation.
I really struggle to see how anyone can support fines, I've heard the arguments for them but I still do not see any valid reason to fine parents. I think some people will just agree with whatever the government tell them is right without any critical thinking.

I know, I wish I could as that would be the problem sorted!

Yeah, I admitted it was a holiday and I really wish I hadn't. I didn't want to lie - but it was a covid holidya that got rearranged, and at the time, we felt "the schools have been shut for months on end, they haven't got a leg to stand on now..." My kid at that time had also been in a serious accident several months prior, and the holiday was the only thing that kept her spirits up in hospital so we hoped that they would take mitigating circumstances.

So I don't necessarily argue against the fine itself - we knew the risks,. But what pissed me off was the fact that it was "instant fine" rather than "let's see how attendance is over the totality of the school year." Because her attendance the rest of the year was absolutely spot on.

But the thing that REALLY fucks me off is that the school doesn't even get the money.

the councils do.

I’m not a teacher I’m support staff and probably earning a lot less than a lot of the parents who claim they can’t afford school holidays! I’m not jealous it is what it is! It’s part of the job that we just have to accept!
Teachers are already at breaking point with work load without having to arrange 30 extra lots of works for 30 differ er children to be out 30 different weeks!! Plus I doubt the parents who are taking their children out during term time would spend 6 hours each day doing school work??

Some teachers think parents are cheeky fuckers for asking for work to do, some teachers think parents are cheeky fuckers for not completing missed work 😂

I quite agree.

I missed school a lot as I am disabled and the school refused to follow the law and provide the reasonable adjustments that were absolutely necessary. Did the school get in trouble for my poor attendance? Of course not, my family was vilely harassed because I was unwell. The whole time I was asking for them to send me work home, to video call call so I could attend the lesson from bed. I was informed that was impossible.

Naturally when all the able-bodied students couldn't come it due to the pandemic suddenly distance learning was possible.🙄

School don't actually care if a child attends school or not, they care about attendance because it high attendance looks good to Ofsted. High attendance is also linked to higher test results, which looks good to Ofsted.

I wonder if it's a mentality of if teachers can't afford to go on holiday during breaks, then they will make sure others can't either. To be spiteful.

But where os the evidence that 30 children will be taken out of school for a holiday?

This certainly was not happening before fines were introduced so why would it happen now?

But if children get to secondary without having a decent primary education then they won’t succeed at secondary.

Yes I did choose to work in a school but parents have chosen to have kids. I know working in a school I can’t have cheap holidays so the same thinking should apply to parents.

DH and I save monthly for holidays we also choose self catering UK holidays to keep costs down.

Ultimately no child will rise out of poverty from a holiday, a decent education and they just might!

I think it should be up to parents and it’s targeting the wrong people. Those who didn’t give a shit about education before this won’t be deterred by a fine.

That’s the worst case senario! I know families who don’t take their children out because of the fines and just suck up the more expensive holidays. If there’s no fines then more people should probably go during school time.

i literally don't care about it - think it's a bit stupid and unfair - but meh whatever I just facoter the cost of a fine in!

It's my child and i'll take them away whenever I want.

I've not been fined yet as took her out for a week before she was 5 so got away with that one

I took her out for a long weekend so she missed friday and monday in May for my dads 70th abroad

She'll be coming out again for a few days in December just before the school hols as we are in disneyland for dads 70th pressie

have often picked up after lunch to go away for the weekend too!

All that happens is her end of year report says do better with attendance next year bla bla bla -

I don't care about attendance rewards and neither does she - it's meaningless

School only takes 6 hours a day because teachers are having to manage 30 kids with a variety of needs. Most home educating parents can have the entire day's work done by noon.

Catching a school child up is a matter of an hour a day, maybe more on the plane or something.

If all parents valued education equally and so too did some sections of our society, if parents ensured children catch up by covering topics missed at home, if the government stopped surge holiday prices, if there was less need to devote funds to behaviour management and thereby more to devote to all educational needs, then we'd not need fines, which ultimately seem to be one of the few disincentives to all, as hit the pocket... absence hits all in a school, yes, there are children who'd be fine, sadly those that miss school are often those we talk of later as NEETs.

School takes 6 hours a day because so much is covered!! You could maybe reduce it down to 5 maybe 4 hours with one child but if it’s being done properly then no way one hour!!

I’m inclined to say that the attendance obsession is less about children well being and more about targets and statistics.

I was always very much 100% in support of whatever the school said. When my eldest was doing GCSEs he fell ill. He hadn’t missed a single day throughout year 10 or 11. I rang in sick and lo and behold I got a call from the headteacher trying to persuade me to send him in even though he was ill. She offered to send transport to collect him and make him up a comfortable place to lie in in a room so that he could compete an assessment. It worried ds so much that he went in feeling terrible.

When he got there there was no assessment, no comfortable space and they just left him in a room all afternoon with nothing to do. They literally just wanted him in so that he could get his attendance mark.

I realised after that how insane some senior leaders have become about attendance.

Yes but there weren’t lots of families taking term time holidays before the fines were introduced.

The fines haven’t changed anything.

There are definitely families who would take their children out of it wasn’t for the fines.

I think it’s a bit mad. I understand attendance is important, my dc attend school unless there’s a good reason not to. I think some parents will continue to take dc out for holidays even with a fine if it means they still save money compared to during school holidays, which I totally get, so I don’t think there will be a huge difference.

The one thing that would make a difference is if the cost of a holiday didn’t sky rocket quite so much during school holidays making it unaffordable for many. I understand it’s supply and demand and school holidays are peak time, but a consequence of that is that parents will find ways to make it cheaper by doing things like taking dc out for the last week of term to half the cost. Until that is resolved and school holidays prices are more reasonable this will continue to happen.

I can only take time off during the school holidays anyway, but I would definitely consider it if I could. But when I was growing up, I missed the last week of pretty much every school year up until my GCSE’s to go on holiday because it was cheaper for my parents, this was over 20 years ago. So this isn’t exactly a new thing, parents have been doing this for decades, only now is it suddenly an issue. I remember my mum requesting a holiday form from the school office and it all seemed very routine, no big deal was made out of it. I had otherwise good attendance and did fine in my gcse’s. Looking back everything just seemed way less pressured then.

I think there should be more concern over children who are consistently missing school, a few days here and there, never quite attending for a full week and it not being due to illness. I feel like that sort of peppered attendance is more disruptive to learning than a planned one off once a school year.

I think the focus is on the wrong group. If school attendance is the actual issue then they should be concentrating on those children who are persistently truant, put more support and safeguarding in place etc. These are the children that should be the concern, not someone who has full attendance and then takes a week off

Otherwise it just smacks of a money making exercise and is a lazy way of saying they are addressing the targets.

I’d hope that the school is much better than teaching the children to recite things on the national curriculum.

my opinion is that if I do something that would cause disruption if everyone were to do it, then is not fair. If we all slipped our children out, it would be a total nightmare for admin / teachers. Thus it’s not fair if some people choose to do it.

It’s really not about whether the individual family can or can’t afford the holiday of their dreams or whether “my child will learn so much more from going to a tribal village than a whole month at school”. It’s about the school, the teachers, the admin, the community.

I’m a teacher and a parent so I see it from both sides.

The prices in term time are so much cheaper. Why should families be priced out of affording a hotel? It’s ridiculous. I know it’s about supply and demand but you’re talking about 30-50% less for the same holiday a week later.

As a teacher though, it is very disruptive to have students constantly in and out of the classroom. They don’t have the right resources or sheets or have missed content so don’t understand the lesson. They can never catch up with the work as copying out doesn’t replace teacher explanation. If they were to make this legal then they’d have to remove the huge amount of accountability teachers face for student progress and attainment.

I get what you’re saying but how does a school with limited resources police that? We have 1500 students in our school. How does the school know the difference between a legitimate holiday and not? It would require a huge amount of admin. How many holidays are allowed? What about holidays with circumstances such as weddings or family visits? It would honestly become a logistical nightmare.

It’s a good point. But what could the alternative be?

perhaps there needs to be more of an appeal to the parents saying, every absence makes x impact, if you take your child away, it affects x, y, z…..some parents would feel bad and stop?

We went to Valencia in the school holidays this year (first one as our son had just finished Reception) and it… wasn’t great. We’re used to going abroad in June and late September when the weather is more pleasant. None of us enjoyed the heat. Three out of four of us are ND and everyone found it hard to cope with. My normally excellent traveller of a son ended up having a major meltdown and biting me at a train station.

I’d love to take my son abroad in June again as it would be so much more comfortable for everyone but I’m just too scared of the fines.

We’re considering shouldering the May/June half term. Going away Wednesday and coming back the following Wednesday for example to try and get something like what we’re used to. I don’t think we’ll try July again.