AIBU to feel my son is unfairly comparing support?

[Appleteeth]

Hi all, first of all I want to make it clear I’m not by any means saying I have been a good mother to my son, or that he doesn’t have every right to resent me for that, I don’t want this to read as woe is me.

Background
I have 2 children they are 41 and 26, I had my first child at 21, he was for the most part raised by my mother, I was completing my nursing degree then doing shift work, I provided for him financially, took him on holiday etc, but I will admit my mother did the vast majority of the day to day care. When he was 11 he wanted to try and live with me and my then partner, he moved in for 6 months but was having problems at school, we then trialled by partner moving out, nothing improved and he insisted he wanted to go back to his grans. So he did, my partner then moved back in.
3 years later my partner and I had our daughter, her father then left and never returned when she was 6 so I raised her alone.

Lately my son has increasingly been talking about the the injustice of his childhood, how DD did more hobbies than him, how the only reason DD now owns a home is because she had more support.

1. There was little in the way of financial disparity, actually I think my son got more money spent on him over all, he had a summer holiday every year, was taken abroad etc.
2. He always had the most fashionable clothes and toys, my mother and I worked extremely hard to ensure this

Yes DD did more hobbies, but my son never actually wanted to as a child, and as a result the last time DD left the country for a family holiday in childhood she was 4, we didn’t do a single holiday between 4 and 11, not even a uk break. DDs birthday and Christmas gifts were often made up of whatever she needed for hobbies that year.

She did go on to go to university being the first in our family to do so, got married and now has children.

She owns a home but I had no involvement in this at all, she and her partner (who had been together since they were 14 saved, and received help from his family, I didn’t have any money to offer).

Now I’m mortgage free but not very high earning as I left nursing for my own health 20 years ago.

I make no difference in the gifts I give to my son’s children and my daughters. I pay for us all to go on holiday once a year (just a uk break).

My son also borrows money every month which he doesn’t always pay back in full but I’ve accepted this.

This afternoon my son came over and he was complaining that his sons didn’t have their proper PE kit and went back to school last week, I told him I don’t have anymore money to give him, he has already had £400 this month and still owes me money from last month.

He then went on a rant that he knows I spent more on my daughter’s children’s school shoes than I did on his sons. This is true but I didn’t do it deliberately, I told them both I could afford £50 per child on school shoes, DD bought her children shoes from start rite so she spent it all, he sent me a link to some shoes which were only £30, I ordered exactly what he sent me.

This then spiralled into me apparently loving my DDs children more than his! This isn’t true at all. I see DDs children a little more as she is in the same town as me and a walk away, I babysit them one day a week for 2 hours and they come over for dinner once a week. I see my son’s children once a week as he brings them over and I try to stop in and see them when I can but it’s a bus away and I’m still working. He also asks me not to come to his ok the weekend so the only option is either the day I already have DDs children or after work. I have offered him babysitting countless times and he always says no he will get his partners mum to do it.

I don’t know what to do?

AIBU to feel I’m not currently doing anything wrong even if in the past I did mess up in having my mum raise him?

Im open to advice!

OP, please don’t worry about all the incredulous horrified ‘you did what’ over 30 years ago and excuses for your son’s behaviour.

Yes, your son was clearly affected by what happened in his childhood (which isn’t that bad, truly- kinship caring is actively promoted today) but he has unfortunately grown up into an unpleasant and entitled man in his 40s. The insisting you give less time to you adult DD is frankly bonkers. Again, for the ‘poor baby boy’ brigade- HE IS 41 YEARS OLD.

Would he be interested in family counselling? Do you think he has the insight to reflect on your situation then, how that is impacting him now and why it isn’t fair to you, or even acceptable to most sensible people. Counselling is where you should be targeting your money and not just handing over fistfuls of fivers to this selfish man.

What kind of father and partner is he, do you know? I actually wonder if he is unpleasant to his partner and kids as well, he certainly seems happy to shit on his mum, gran and little sister. He may just be an arsehole 🤷‍♀️

I would be concerned that he is abusing your mother and yourself financially.
He certainly is extracting a significant amout every month and using his childhood to beat you with.
I would be wary of him.
He sounds highly manipulative.

I’m going to go against the grain but don’t change anything, you are treating them equally now, and as you said changing things will not fill the void he is feeling. The more you give him, the more he will want.
Continue as you are, it is likely that he is pushing against the boundary as much as he is pushing against anything else. His past is separate to the current situation with grandchild and needs to be treated as such.
I would suggest that you talk to him about counselling together, to discuss what has happened and the impact of this. If he doesn’t agree that is his choice, but don’t make things more difficult for your daughter to appease your son.

so from now on when a poster makes a thread by how let down and hurt she is that her father had her live somewhere else, brought up by relatives because having a child wasn’t compatible with his wants, yet managed this for his second family, everyone will tell her how awful and selfish she is and clearly jealous of her half siblings?

There will be resentment as you are his mum and he didn’t live with you, and that will have caused some trauma I’m sure. But he didn’t have a ‘troubled’ childhood, he lived consistently with his nan, who would have become the main parental figure in his life. You’re getting a lot of judgement it seems, but what’s done is done. He’s now in his 40s and is still relying on you financially. You can’t make him accept that you’re not treating him differently so I’d probably just keep reassuring him and try not to let it get to you so much.

I actually think you should reduce the amount of money he’s having off of you. He’s a grown man now. It’s time for you to start putting that money away for retirement etc. He will never stop asking you for money unless you put your foot down. Don’t let your guilt for his childhood stop you from standing up for yourself

I'm wondering if the reason he doesn't want you there at weekends is because he uses drugs then. That would explain where the money is going.

Please don’t stop babysitting your DDs kids . He’s just being awkward. None of this is your DD’s fault.

How did you come to the conclusion that you should let down your DD and her kids?? A very small minority suggested that. It's a terrible idea, and I doubt your son does want you over that much. Don't let him sabotage your and your daughter's good relationship

I'm going against the grain here OP. I don't think there is anything you can do that would compensate your son - at least in his eyes. What's done is done and it seems that you did your best with the tools you had at the time and really no one can do more than that.

I certainly wouldn't do anything that would jeopardise your relationship with your daughter as I suspect that it still won't be enough to satisfy your son. I'd be inclined to tell him that although you realise his childhood was less than ideal and you accept that you fell short as a mother, none of that can be changed now and really, he just needs to suck it up and get on with his life as all adults eventually have to do. I'd also stop lending him money - you need that to fund your own future.

If it helps at all, I know at least three mothers, all exemplary by any standards, who find themselves in a similar situation with their sons, all of whom have completely severed all ties. All of these sons feel that their mothers have been deficient in various different ways - too smothering, too critical or too disinterested -and continue to whine about it although they are all middle-aged men who are married and have families of their own.

Interestingly, none blame their fathers for what they regard as their 'rubbish' childhoods. A Mother's place is always in the wrong, it seems!

Anyway, in your place I'd accept that your relationship with your son is unlikely to ever be properly repaired and I'd refuse to be manipulated by him any further. I'd also devote the majority of my efforts towards maintaining your better relationship with your more appreciative daughter. I wish you well OP and hope that you will eventually find some peace with the situation. Sending big unmumsnetty hugs.

Yet again I'm hearing about a single mum, with no dad in the picture.

A son who was aggressive/violent he moved back and still, aged 41, thinks your money is his and that he can shout/criticise you in your own home.

I'm fed up of these stories of entitled men behaving like this on Mumsnet. If this was a 41 year old woman, no-one would think this was ok behaviour.

Your son is cross you weren't there for him as much as he wanted. He had a good childhood witth a loving grandma, plus his mum as much as possible, this is more than a lot of children have especially those without active dads. Once every two weekends is the time many divorced dads have with their kids and no-one thinks they should be paying a money penalty to their children into their forties!

OP, have a conversation. Tell him you are genuinely sorry. That in hindsight you would have made different decisions. Then get on with your life. Separate the money now with the past then, you can't pay for that emotional debt with money in the here and now, so don't do it.

If anything, try to encourage him to be financially independent, and get counselling if he wants to talk about it.

I'm fed up of hearing about adult children constantly criticising their parents, as if their parents aren't humans who stuff up too (like they are doing!) and then extracting money, time or whatever, with their guilt trips. I have friends whose sons are doing this into their thirties and it's quite horrible to see. The adult women/girls I know don't tend to guilt trip their parents around money in the same way.

I have noticed the entitlement and lack of gratitude amongst adult sons too! And that they feel entitled to criticise their mums (never their dads) even if the mum was a single mum and did pretty much all that a single mum could do to work and juggle everything.

I love my adult children and I've fallen on my sword about the things I got wrong, but I'm not going to live in a guilt-tripping relationship of criticism and extracting money for ever as a consequence, I have daughters and whilst they can be a bit sharp occasionally, they are much more grateful, understanding and emotionally literate. They also know I won't put up with endless criticism when they are in their thirties or forties about a past that is gone about things I did when, you know, being a human with foibles and weak spots, like every single one of us.

Some sons are growing up quite unpleasant, even from my pleasant friends, the mums don't seem able to just push back and say enough is enough.

Please don’t do this, your poor DD. Don’t stop the babysitting. He’s being ridiculous. He had two loving mother figures in his life from tje day he was born I think he sounds more spoilt than traumatized.

The situation is quite complex OP, and you have had a lot of replies, but I wanted to respond to this point as objectively as possible:

'He then went on a rant that he knows I spent more on my daughter’s children’s school shoes than I did on his sons. This is true but I didn’t do it deliberately, I told them both I could afford £50 per child on school shoes, DD bought her children shoes from start rite so she spent it all, he sent me a link to some shoes which were only £30, I ordered exactly what he sent me.'

If you had £50 for school shoes, per child, to give them each, then you should have transferred the money and said: 'Here is £50(times the number of children they have) for you to spend on your children's school shoes. I have sent the same amount per child to your sibling so they can do the same'.

There was no need for faffing about with them sending you links and you hitting the 'pay now' button.

You deprived them of some autonomy with the way you did this, and left the door open to the situation that has unfolded.

Don't feel guilty you have done your best. I think your DS is using it to get money/his own way. Don't let your DD down with childcare she needs you just as much as your DS.
If he truly wanted a fair division of you seeing his children he would be happy at weekends

Maybe op was paying with klarna or something? I use it sometimes to spread the cost.

I’ve done this in the past and he’s called me two weeks later moaning he doesn’t have the children’s school shoes and I’ve had to fork out again as they obviously need shoes for school.

So I don’t trust him anymore, if I’m buying something for the children I do it myself or else he just squanders it.

Apparently it was my mother who told him DD spent more on her children’s shoes.

I feel desperately sorry for that little boy who couldn't live with his mum for 11 years. He must have felt very rejected when his friends all presumably lived with their mothers. It would have been very confusing for him despite having a loving grandmother. Although I'm pretty shocked that his grandmother allowed him to roam the streets until 10pm at the age of 11. He could have been drawn into all sorts of dangerous and illegal situations.

But he is now a 41 year old man who is behaving badly. No doubt it is born of his childhood but that doesn't give him the right to treat you, your mum and his sister so badly now.

I think you need to stop giving him money. He doesn't deserve it and is an adult so shouldn't need it. I also think you and him need some sort of therapy. Regardless of whether you made the right or wrong decision all those years ago, you both need to move past it to have any sort of future relationship together. It may be he refuses therapy and becomes even worse when you cut off the money but you have to try something. If he refuses therapy then you should write him a heartfelt letter explaining that he needs to deal with the past and when he does you will be there for him. You cannot let him continuously emotionally and financially abuse you as some form of punishment.

Do not let your DD down as it sounds like he only wants you round on Wednesdays as it will make life difficult for your DD.

Good luck OP. I really feel for you. Sadly I think your DS has spent so many years being angry with you and the world that there is no easy fix.

Your son obviously has issues with you about his childhood, which can't be changed retrospectively. His inability to manage a budget or use money as a weapon against you and your mother is another matter. Could i suggest to book family mediation, so you can enter into a constructive conversation with him? There are organisations that offer it free.

My two also had very different childhoods, so I kind of understand your predicament.

I was a young mum to DS. I too went to university and my parents had my son a lot, although I was often there too, as I hated staying alone. So it was more that we 'both' stayed there for a few nights a week.

DS was especially close to my brother and dad, very close. As I was a single mum, this gave him the male role models he needed.

He still went off the rails in his teens. There is probably one reason for that - his dad attacked and tried to kill us, and it affected both a lot.

I was also quite poor, but bought him everything he needed/wanted. My Dbro also spoilt him, buying him game consoles and games, etc.

DS was 19 when DD was born. I was married, she had a more 'settled' home life. My parents did look after her sometimes when we worked, but at our house.

Their childhoods were so very different, and I sometimes think DS may be a bit envious - I never took him abroad, whereas DD has been abroad tons of times, however I also never had a passport until DD got one, and DS and I used to go on holiday with my parents, and sometimes with my sister and her son. So 'different' but not directly comparable.

My little brother died 6 years ago, my dad 5 years ago, so DD (16), didn't know them in the same way as DS did. DS had FOUR grandparents, two great-grandparents, DD had two grandparents, one of whom died when she was still very young.

It is impossible to give them identical lifestyles and experiences with a big age gap, it can be different even if the same parents have large age gaps between siblings.

All you can do is be there for him. I imagine he is sore and feels that his sister was 'wanted' more, that doesn't mean it is right, but it is his right to feel that way.

I'd really disengage from every discussion of comparison, totally disengage.

I am sorry that it has been so tough.

Sounds like he's jealous of your daughter. Her life turned out much better than his. He wants you to choose him, to acknowledge this, and he missed a mother's love as a child which he feels is the cause of his less successful life, I think this may be what he sees it as.

This. At this rate you’ll be in the same situation in 20 years time. He’s 41 and a father. It’s about time he took responsibility for his children and bills, irrespective of how he believes he was treated. He’ll destroy your relationship with your daughter too and be glad about it.

You can't change the past. The majority of posters seem to think that putting in the boot and insisting on self flagellation ad finitum will help . It won't.

You could suggest family therapy to him but he's unlikely to agree to it but at least the offer is there if both of you are willing.

In the meantime take a step away from his incessant demands for money and don't change your child minding - why should your daughter be penalised for his grievances.

Perhaps some family counselling together with your son could help mend your relationship - and show him that you’re sorry for how things were in his childhood and you want to show up for him now and make amends? I have a friend whose mum had her young and was a single mum - they had a tough relationship while she was growing up and my friend felt quite neglected and went to live with her dad when she was about 14. Their mum later remarried and had children in her late 30s and my friend was a teenager and felt very saddened that her mum got a second chance to be a mum for their ‘new family’ but they didn’t get a second chance at their childhood. Going to therapy together really helped. They still have a relationship that’s more like friends than parent/child but it healed a lot of damage and helped her understand how sorry her mum was and how hard she was trying to right the wrongs of the past. The money is kind of beside the point - but if you’re financially able to help your son a bit more, and your daughter doesn’t need it as much - can it really hurt to sling some cash his way every couple of months? X

It's not the difference in support, or the shoes. It's that he isn't close to you because he was brought up by his grandmother. He doesn't feel loved by you.

You need to have a talk with him and let him rant and then work it out together.

I do have some sympathy for your son and he clearly resents you and your DD for the past, however I do think he needs to take responsibility for himself now as he is an adult. I wonder if he is annoyed at himself for making poorer choices than your
DD, as he sound financially unstable and she sounds more settled and comfortable.
Theres clearly a lot of jealousy and dislike towards her, which from the info you have given isn’t really fair on her.
Despite what everyone else is saying, his childhood doesn’t sound THAT bad. It sounds like you did your best with challenging circumstances and it also sounds like you are more than making up for it now.
He is being unfair in my opinion and using his childhood as an excuse for his failures.
He needs to grow up and sort himself out, realise he is in control of his own life and try to make himself happy.
I am not sure how you can fix this as it already sounds like you are doing all you can and his requests to not see your DD and her children are extremely unreasonable.
I really feel for you as I am sure this is heartbreaking for you and he is basically forcing you to choose between the two of them.
I know he is your son and you love him but I think all you can do is carry on as you are and hope he comes around. You aren’t doing anything wrong.
He is being unreasonable, you are not.
Good luck and I hope he comes around with time and maybe another few heart to hearts.
Stop beating yourself up