DD overdose. The system is broken? Any advice?

[BeethovenNinth]

I have posted about DD before. Broken by lockdown, anorexia age 12, school drop out, burn out, self harm extreme. We are five years in.

we have repeatedly been told she doesn’t qualify for help and have tried various therapists ourselves.

she is out of school and self learning. Very lonely. Seems ok recently ot so I thought.

due to intense sadness last night she took an overdose of aspirin. I suspect a cry for help and she phoned childline who got her to phone 111. (She didn’t think to wake any of us). I suspect A and E will just kick us out soon.

we are a loving family but this is a huge setback.

we are Edinburgh based, desperate desperate for the right help.

private psychiatrist? Do we suggest sertraline? Anyone in Scotland have any good suggestions?

thanks from a broken mother

Our youngest has been on sertraline for about 13 months now. It’s helped.
He still has some bad days here & there, but he’s back in school & he’s come a long way in the last 12 months.

My eldest took sertraline after she started university. It has been fantastic for her and in her words ‘ allowed her to breathe again’ . She was incredibly anxious . Vomiting every morning with nerves , constant back pain. She hasn’t taken any this summer as I think she is coping better with things but says she may go back on it if she starts to feel anxious

If you haven’t already, then you need to take her to A&E, whether she’s kept in or not, there will be a child specific mental health team who will assess. You need to do this in the first instance regardless of what you will do using private interventions in the future.

With all due respect shes isolated if shes out of school and why is there asprin lying around, it sounds like you are expecting z therapist to fix her,

You can DM me if you think it will help. I have had similar (not identical) and am in Scotland although not Edinburgh. My DC was helped immensely by a private clinic and medication and is now leading a pretty normal life. Very happy to go into more detail more privately.

The reason I suggested those was because there are examples of how to get some help/manage (there’s not a simple test for pans for example). It was the onset after a covid infection that made me consider this.

Glad things have worked out

Thanks all. Yes we are in A and E.

I have had her moved to A side room. The staff are lovely and we are now in toxicology.

we dealt with self harm for three years. They always find a way to do it (my younger child’s pencil sharpener was used). Yes I should lock aspirin away but I worry she will find something else eg toilet cleaner.

in answer to my breaking down at A and E today - I did. I was in tears and explained I was the sole caregiver and was no longer coping. I have had countless hospital trips and appointments and remained calm and measured for five years and it’s made fuck all difference. I today said if she ends up dead I will sue them and that i am no longer coping (as I am not), my husband is physically unwell from it. If histrionics yields help then so be it. Until you walk the shoes it’s impossible to describe the impact.

I think we go privately from here though.

im so grateful for your stories and help

Can you say what the hobby is? I have an ASD dd who is very sensory seeking.

Oh OP I'm so sad for you both.

I know you don't think she's autistic, but if you get to see a specialist you might be surprised. DS2 was clearly adhd, but when he eventually got to camhs they said very quickly he's also autistic. We were blindsided. But we now understand he'd been masking his whole life. He was almost 18 & without the routine of school things had started to crumble. Since then - 18 months- his adhd meds have allowed us to see loads of the autistic traits that were buried.

As a teacher of 30+ years every single girl I've known who has school refused & burnt out due to anxiety has been autistic, or later diagnosed. It won't be everyone, but it's worth thinking about. (Also every trans child, but that's a completely different story & thread).

I'm Glasgow. If you're ever over here & fancy a coffee let me know. DS2 is now at uni & very upfront about his struggles if your DD would like a chat - he's also funny & sweet.❤️

Yes OP, I'd go full tonto. There's no other path left for you now.

So sorry to hear of this situation- I can recommend The Edinburgh Practice. They have been incredible for several families I know who have similar situations.

Agree with this. Stabilise with SSRIs and in the meantime set up proper psychotherapy. CBT will not really help with extreme depression though it might give her some coping mechanisms and a sense that she can do something. Not counselling, please - their training is not sufficient to deal with this and that can be damaging to both client/patient and counsellor.

Good luck OP, I feel for you both.

In a related question, how do I go about finding a life coach that's ND focused? DS2 is doing well- at uni at home- happy with hobbies & friends, but I still need to do a load of executive functioning & scaffolding, & wondered if a good life coach might help.

As a PP mentioned if both ADHd and autism are present it can mask the presentation somewhat. DH’s psychiatrist described it a bit like a seesaw. DH also found his autistic traits became stronger when on ADHD meds. I think there is a very strong link between ED and neurodiversity. Whilst she might not want to persue a diagnosis it’s still worth looking for ND specialist therapy. Things like CBT etc can often be ineffective for ND people. I second the suggestion for a ND life coach. DH finds that more useful than therapy

If you choose a private Psychiatrist you are best to look for one that will screen for multiple possible diagnoses before undertaking assessments. This is more expensive than a single diagnostic pathway but also much more likely to be successful. I would avoid services which are set up with entirely different pathways for e.g. autism and ADHD. You want a professional that will keep an open mind instead of just ruling out/in a specific condition.

A lot of the newer ND clinic you have to pick the pathway and they are all seperate. Look for a multidisciplinary ND assessment. This is far more likely to help work out the underlying cause of the anxiety and therefore the best way forward. Otherwise its basically an experiment to try different meds.

Oh this is very familiar: we went to Diverse Diagnostics in Glasgow for diagnosis and a short course of therapy.

I KNEW my daughter needed Prozac, just knew it. They insisted on trying ADHD meds first which did nothing. Within two days of Prozac it was like having my girl back.

It cost us a bit, I can’t quite remember. 4-5k maybe.

CAMHS were dreadful and actively made my daughter worse. I wouldn’t even go there. Once meds are prescribed privately you can do shared care with your GP.

We tried CBT but she couldn’t engage until the ADs kicked in; they said that’s often the way.

Medication saved my daughters life; I wouldn’t go round the houses trying 30 mins a week talking to a stranger to be honest.

@BeethovenNinth

OP, I wonder whether it would be useful to fill in the enquiry form for Dr McCann, the person I suggested earlier.

His Edinburgh Clinic is in Dundas Street.

I would like to think that you would hear back from his team on Monday.

https://www.drpetermccann.com/new-patients/

Love, she sounds exactly like my daughter. Perfectly NT until she wasn’t. She walked into the consulting room and within about 90 seconds the Psychiatrist took me to one side and said, she is 100% autistic. We had no clue until she had a breakdown.

Heat, flies, socialising…tick, tick, tick. All things she struggled with too.

My friend's son was under CAMHS for years, he was referred at 9 or 10. They did fuck all apart from assess him for autism (which he has) and diagnose him with PTSD and anxiety. He was on the waiting list for EMDR therapy for his PTSD when he was discharged from CAMHS a few weeks before he hit 18. Now he has to start again with adult MH services.

He had to switch from DLA to PIP a bit over a year ago. He opted to use it to pay for counselling/therapy with someone who specialises in counselling adolescents and ND people.

The change in him has been amazing. He doesn't have a meltdown when someone comes to the door, he can stay home alone without freaking out and ringing his mother and begging her to come home, and he can actually go out on his own for short walks.

This young man has had no secondary education, so has no qualifications, no school history or anything. When he's well enough to work, it's hard to imagine what he could do or what job he could get. If he'd had prompt treatment when he was first referred, he could be facing a very different future.

CAMHS is utterly useless in Edinburgh. My friend’s son was actively attempting suicide regularly aged 8. He couldn’t go to school, she had to give up work for 4 months to keep him safe at home. Give up on any thoughts of NHS help. My psychiatrist friend recommended the Edinburgh Practice for someone else and it has been transformational.

What happens if parents can’t afford it? Dare the kids left to die? Just one more appalling failure of the SNP government.

I'm very sorry. It is heart breaking.
I just wanted to say that there is no way of knowing if she is autistic spectrum or not without an assessment. Many people, including gps, A& E staff, think they know what autism looks like. But it can be hard to pick out as it can present so differently. My younger daughter was diagnosed aged 7 - her elder sister was diagnosed a whole 7 years later. You would have thought we would have noticed. But we didn't. Robbie Williams was recently diagnosed....it can explain such a lot.

I wasn't sure how old your daughter is. How soon will she be eligible for adult services? I think it can be easier to find private therapists.

Completely agree. My DD was diagnosed age 6. She was observed and assessed in clinic and received a really high score so wasn’t even borderline . Her nursery and school all said she was ‘fine’ and I think nobody else would have noticed or pushed for a diagnosis if I hadn’t worked in the field and so knew what to look for. One speech therapist told me ‘there is so much we don’t know yet about how autism presents in girls’.

one of my daughter’s symptoms was extreme distress after school and extremely worrying self- hate and low self esteem (age 5 and 6!) . I’d say her relationship with food is complex too.

I’m so sorry you’re having such an awful time.
we’ve had great success with The Youth Fairy, it’s solution focused, my daughter was also done with talking. They are a franchise so in a lot of areas or online. I started by calling for a chat and I was very open, before I went in for a free consultation with my daughter.
good luck