To think we have failed our children/daughter as she now doesn’t want any other job just one in my office or working with DH.

[ForJadeEagle]

Our daughter doesn’t want to go to her firm choice anymore. Instead, she wants to take a gap year and reapply to university, but she doesn’t want to get a job unless it’s at my workplace.

Our daughter did incredibly well in her Alevels 4 A stars. She worked incredibly hard for those grades and had been set to go to Durham to study Law. Cambridge was always her ultimate university, but she never applied due to the applications having to be in so early for Oxford and Cambridge compared to the other unis. Now that she has achieved these grades, she wants to take a gap year and apply.

I’ve told her that she cannot simply spend the year working for me. I want her to get some proper, real-world work experience. Almost all of her work experience so far has been with family members or friends of my husband. She’s never had a customer service job or anything similar.

I’m a solicitor and run my own business. My office is in the town centre of our town. It’s not a huge law firm or a Magic Circle firm I have fewer than 20 solicitors working for me. I have allowed her to “work for me” for a while now, and she genuinely enjoys it. In some ways, she’s practically a paralegal. She has been working alongside and shadowing the paralegals for around two years and does a lot of the filing and general office work.

But I would really like her to have a normal job for an 18 year old. Go and work in a supermarket, a café, retail anything like that. Even if she only did it for six months, I think she needs to experience what that kind of work is actually like.

I think we’ve given her far too much privilege, and now we’re seeing the consequences of that. She says that if I won’t let her work in my office for the year, then her dad will let her work with him. He’s an art dealer and runs auctions in London. It’s not Christie’s or Sothebys nothing like that it’s his own business.

The truth is, I feel like we’ve raised a brat, and I’m incredibly disappointed in myself.
She has never really had to work for anything. I pay her for the work she does at my office, and I even pay her above minimum wage for her age. When it came to her car, I told her she needed to save up for one herself. Instead, she went behind our backs and spoke to my husband’s parents, who then “gifted” her a relatively new Mini under ten years old for her 18th birthday.
I’m just so frustrated. Every time we’ve tried to put a boundary in place, she seems to find a way around it. My parents and my husband’s parents are all in their 80s. They don’t always know what goes on, and they would do absolutely anything for her. I’ve tried talking to my parents about it, but they just say, “She’s young.” My parents have more money than sense at this point. They’re retired and financially comfortable, so they feel they have nothing to lose by giving her things.

And it isn’t just our daughter. Our eldest son is at Edinburgh and is going into his final year. He’s doing very well academically and has had plenty of jobs, but they’ve all been “nice” jobs. I worry that we’ve sheltered both of them too much. I don’t want my children to suffer, but I do think there is value in being 18 or 21 and having to do a job that isn’t particularly glamorous.

Our son is 21 and has mostly worked in places like art galleries. He’s currently doing his internship in London at JPMorgan and his plan is to work there after graduation next summer. If that happens, he may never actually have had what I would consider a “normal” job for someone his age.

I never wanted my children to struggle unnecessarily. I wanted to give them opportunities and make sure they were comfortable. But now I’m wondering whether, in trying so hard to protect them from hardship, we’ve also protected them from learning what hard work, independence and consequences actually feel like.

Have we genuinely failed as parents. DH is much more blasé about it. Doesn’t think they need to work in a supermarket or just a customer service role to know what it is like to work for things.

OP do you or your husbands contacts treat her any differently from the other youngsters you/they ‘employ’? I find this is what happens in the workplace friends/family connections that people are treated very differently.

You are incredibly lucky to have two very successful adult ‘children’. They will probably never encounter any hardship, and only socialise with similar backgrounds.

My personal opinion with volunteering is some do it for self gratification and not to actually ‘help’ the cause. You either sincerely and passionately want to be involved, or you do it to meet your own needs. I wouldn’t push the volunteering.

I’d rather she worked for you than take a ‘low level’ job from someone who wouldn’t have the same options, advantages and finances just so she can pretend experience life without privilege.

It does have a very Pulp Common People vibe about this thread.

You think she has done very little wrong? I beg to differ.

She obviously isn’t academically lazy we will give her that. However she has become an entitled, graceless and ultimately cowardly person. She is afraid to face life on anything except the easiest settings. She will never actually be able to say I did that fully by myself, because she will always want the financial and emotional safety net.

It’s one thing to work in Mum’s business, many of my nieces and nephews have done that, but at least they were public facing, had scheduled shifts and reported to the floor manager and not Mummy. This young woman is coasting, but it is the cowardice making her run away from proper work which would really tick me off.

Most parents work hard to make sure their kids have it 'easier' than they did. I know I am!! So long as they are making an effort somewhere they feel us important then I think thats fine. Yes, they are probably a bit spoiled, perhaps what they have missed out on is the idea they might not get the job i.e. a genuine interview. Are they good in the workplace or do they swan around implying all this will one day be theirs....?

I know 18 year olds who barely get out of bed. I know parents are worried as their children aren’t doing as well academically as they could or won’t get a job at all. Some parents are concerned their children can barely leave the house.

this parent is worried because their children won’t work in a cafe and volunteer?

@ForJadeEagle Im in the opposite situation with one of my DC. I was a single mum for many years working NMW and I had tax credits top up. We used to go litter picking or we’d make sandwiches for the homeless. Not religious but I would help out at the church and take him with me. I tried instilling we may not have had much but we were lucky for what we had. And I believe that. When food banks became a thing we would collect for them. You get the picture, I wanted my son to never see himself as disadvantaged. Every way we could give back, we did.
So many shoebox appeals etc and now my son is very lovely but is terrible with money. Sees someone struggling with bus fare, he buys their ticket but will walk home himself. Someone asks for a drink or homeless person asks for money? It’s theirs, even though he hasn’t got it to be so generous with.
I don’t think I’ve given him any real desire to earn good money. He would rather do 50 hours a week in a badly paid job than just aim a bit higher and study for uni.
I never wanted him to feel disenfranchised that we were poor, that he had a teen single mum but it’s instead made him think that it wasn’t anywhere near as tough as it was because we helped others.
We do what we think is right when raising kids at the time and with the best will in the world we also just need to see how it plays out long term. My son has learning difficulties so struggles academically which is another added layer of stress for him, but he has no desire for extra tutoring etc, despite the offers. I’d love him to be a bit more interested in learning and having a career but time will tell, maybe he’ll develop that desire with age. He does at least work and it’s not easy for kids his age to find jobs so I am so proud of him. But I understand how you feel, I look back and wish I’d actually said to him that I didn’t want a life of being poor or getting by to be his goals, I just didn’t want him to be miserable about it either. I’ve tried now he’s older but it’s not really sinking in.

All we want is to not fuck up being a parent but no matter what you do, we almost always find a way to do it 😂

I’d let her work for you but cut her pay to minimum wage and make her work very hard. Also, who is paying for fuel, tax, insurance for the car? That will be her responsibility right?

Talk to your husband and ask him to support you. A marriage is like a cart with 2 horses , you need both pulling.

Tell your daughter that charity work is not ‘for free’ that the money she should be is earning is going to the charity. Arrange for her to go away abroad next summer if it’s important to you. Good luck.

A law firm is public facing though, that’s the point of it. I worked in one after a levels, it was the most depressing thing I’ve ever done and I come from quite a scummy background! I was exposed to a lot more than I was in my Saturday job working on the tills in marks and Spencer. The people who are awful customers in a shop become more awful when you are alone in an office with them.

why would she want to work in a supermarket when she can work in the job she wants to do. This view that you need to struggle to appreciate things I find is really odd. The old what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger bollocks.

Indeed. Very bizarre

Correct! OP knows that she isn’t really trying. Everyone knows it.

The fact some 18/19 year olds are depressed/addicted/in prison is neither here nor there really. This young woman has basically every privilege going and her parents are right to be disappointed that she has no intention of stretching herself.

She wants to be a solicitor or lawyer or barrister or similar.

Why would packing someone’s groceries in Asda be life experience for her with regards that? Especially when you can offer her relevant work experience whilst she applies to Cambridge to study law.

shes hardly expecting to get a PT waitressing role while you fund her lifestyle!

I think you’re over thinking it.

I think she sounds focussed and pretty great!

Offer her the job at your firm on the basis that she also does volunteering alongside it otherwise say she needs to get a job elsewhere.

Have her look in to travelling

I understand OP, sometimes coming from privilege puts blinkers on kids and they have little idea how the “real world” works.

The only thing you can do is tell her that she can’t work for you during her gap year as you don’t need her. But your DH has to say the same or she’ll just go to him.

Then stop paying for things during her gap year.

You can’t force her to get a “normal” job. She might just ask granny to pay her for some gardening or something.

Don’t be too worried though. She’s doing well academically and has some work ethic. She’s not doing too badly at all. Reality will bite her on the bum at some point.

I think you’re overthinking. She has been working and by the sounds of it doing a good job and getting valuable experience. It’s not like she wants to spend the year lying on the beach.

Taking a gap-year and applying to Cambridge sounds perfectly sensible.

I do understand what you mean about the “real world” experience but maybe she could do some volunteering while working for you part time ?
Working with her Dad sounds like an amazing opportunity for an 18 year old too.

Also has it occurred to you that your 18 year old taking a “real job” instead of one of the two jobs you and her Dad could give her, she’d be depriving another person of that job that they may really need for money to actually live?

I’d say being spoilt is more about attitude really. If your DC are able to work at whatever job, and work hard for their exams they don’t sound spoiled to me. Are they polite and respectful to people? Do they have nice friends?

She isn’t really trying? Op says she is a highly competent (sort of) paralegal, turning up and and working hard at the firm. Given her grades I would expect she is excellent at it . The OP is upset as she isn’t going to work in a cafe or volunteer but wants to graft in a law firm. Did I misunderstand the post? If the daughter went to a law firm down the road and got a similar job would that be ok?

Law is very competitive and it’s more important to get decent legal experience than working in a supermarket.

I suggest you say that you will support her for this year and she can work in your office BUT one afternoon per week she needs to be volunteering. A good 5-6 hours a week.

What sort of things has she said that were so concerning that the school have contacted you about it? Were they racist/classist remarks? What were the consequences of this behaviour? I assume that you were very concerned but your husband just brushed it aside.

Both your children seem to be taking after your husband and reflecting his views.

I don't think that privileged teenagers necessarily need to work in minimum wage jobs in supermarkets to be able to behave with kindness and empathy towards people much less privileged than they are but unfortunately your husband is setting a bad example.

“AdjectiveColourNoun · Today 06:58
The job thing is a bit of a red herring. You are worried about her character and a random job isn’t going to change that. And very likely an Oxbridge degree and law career will only reinforce her sense of entitlement which I assume is at the root of her character.”

@ForJadeEagle I agree with @AdjectiveColourNoun - your concern is about your DD’s character. She clearly is extremely bright and has a solid work ethic. You have not told us what kind of things she says but they presumably show a lack of empathy, imagination and awareness around privilege (ie she may have a very high IQ but very low emotional intelligence). It sounds like a lot of this stems from your husband but why should his values prevail over yours? Describing volunteering simply as working for free is to fundamentally miss the point but obviously you know that because you volunteer. She is still very young and there is still time for her to develop a better understanding of matters.

OP, my DC was in a similar position to yours some years back. Had a place at Durham but when they got 4 A stars, decided to gap year to reapply to Oxford. In the gap year, volunteered in a developing country, building toilets for a school and also teaching in the school. Then went to another developing country and worked with children with learning difficulties. So yes, it definitely developed character, but it was obviously a very privileged way of developing character because most people wouldn't have been able to afford all the flights for a start!

If your DD gets into Cambridge, they are not really allowed to work in a shop or something during term time. Some do, but it's not advised.

Br aware that reapplying to Cambridge with all A stars is by no means a shoe-in. For law, your DD will not only need relevant work experience, but also show that she has achieved something above and beyond in that experience. She should try to play down the fact it's actually your company she interns at (if at all possible). If she could also get an internship at another law firm, that would be ideal. She will also need to enter some essay competitions, etc, if she hasn't already. Keep up evidence if academic development, basically. They assess gap year students to a higher bar and the full set of A star grades are just a given - all reapplicants will have the same or they wouldn't be reapplying! This is what you need to be worried about - not supermarket jobs. How will she feel if she doesn't get in second time around? She needs a strong back-up alternative. Durham can be a bit sniffy about students who withdraw last minute to do the Oxbridge thing (it's very common) and may well keep her waiting for her offer as a reapplicant who ditched their place after results day.

My DC who (luckily) did get into Oxford after the gap year has worked extremely hard. Not in a supermarket no, but has given 100% to any and every opportunity available. Did a Masters as well and did 3 internships during this year. No this one has never worked in a supermarket, but so what? They have a strong work ethic in the sphere they are in, which at the age of 24 is an international job with a salary of over £130k. You want your kids to be as financially independent as possible surely?

Just have a conversation with your DD about the risks involved in this gap year. Would she be happy going to Durham if the Cambridge plan doesn't work out? Crucially, would she be happy to have taken the gap year regardless? She needs to be clear that the answer to this is 'yes,' and that she has a strong and productive plan regardless.

I think you're being unreasonable on the jobs thing. They've had work experience, that is what matters?

I've only had jobs that are related to my interests, even as a 16 year old, and it's done me no harm. Though I did have to find them myself, not via nepotism. I guess maybe it's the nepotism that is bad for her rather than it being a 'nice' job? Is she good? Would you employ another person her age with her skills if they weren't your daughter?

On the car thing you are not being unreasonable, that's very manipulative of her and she does need to learn to save for things.

Have her work in your office (relevant experience which universities will love) but give her the shitty jobs. There's nothing special about working in a supermarket (I've done it, it was great) apart from contact with the public and if you get her answering the phones or manning a reception desk she'll get that. A few months of relentless mundane jobs will knock a lot of corners off.

I understand your point

For her uni application and future career the most impressive thing would be to work in a law firm but not yours. That might be the best for her development too.

I had all the rubbish student jobs back in the day. I did learn to be very grateful for my “nice” post university job. But I also think I’ve been held back by not feeling entitled enough actually. If you are going to be around a load of privileged entitled people in your career, a humble attitude isn’t necessary helpful.

Id just point out that in terms of future job applications, a reference for her mum or mum’s firm might not be accepted (not in law, but in my field it would not).

I don't think you've necessarily failed her. It's okay for people to want to avoid everything less then comfortable, but in some cases they'll need to comply more or less. Or maybe not and she'll have a higher standard and will always look for something just like this AND she'll find it.