Channel 4 ADHD documentary

[crackerjackbaby]

Totally totally one sided. And very dangerous as a result of that. AIBU to think this?

The other issue, which is beginning to be acknowledged in the research community, is that much recent research into ASD and ADHD has included many participants who are self-diagnosed, no formal diagnosis.

So you have people participating in research into ASD and ADHD, which then goes on to shape how we understand ND, who have never been actually assessed and may not actually be ND at all.

This is beginning to be recognised as a potentially serious issue that affects the credibility of the research.

It has been done with the best of intentions, recognising how difficult and long the wait can be for formal diagnosis - but it is a serious issue with potentially far reaching consequences.

Really? I mean I've had a physical health condition diagnosed after I went through Bupa rather than the NHS. It wasn't one I wanted (coeliac disease) but the medical evidence was all there.

My best friend had a cancer diagnosis and expedited treatment through Bupa as well, it arguably saved her life given the appalling NHS waiting times.

You pay for the assessment and shorter wait, not the diagnosis itself.

Yes. I notice the need more joined up care is something else the NHS taskforce have highlighted. The problem is the wait lists for MH provision are dire too with often a hugely reactionary approach. Better access to NHS diagnosis and joined up care is so important. Sufferers are being demonised because of woeful provision that isn’t their fault. Joined up care with ND and MH teams does happen in our personal experience but when patients have been left to get so unwell they’re having higher tiers of care.

Yes. The drugs used are stimulants. Which stimulate the hormone dopamine in their brain. Which is deficient in people with ADHD. If you don’t have ADHD you will have normal levels of dopamine and this is why you experienced the effects that you did.

I think people finding their niche is really important and can help manage the 'adhd symptoms' in many cases. I'm not saying there isn't a place for medication at all, but it should be a last resort. Difficulty is as adults we can find those niches but it's harder as a kid because school doesn't allow for that flexibility.

I don't have a diagnosis of ADHD, but have no doubt that I would tick those boxes if I applied for one. I found work that's not 9 to 5, where I can binge work and then take a break if I fancy. Previously I did work which was very intense and about as perfect for ADHD as you can get, but children and stress made me pause that.

I have a child who is exactly the same, and I've considered whether to go down the path of diagnosis for her, but at the moment I'm trying to get her to understand how her brain works and how she can use that for her own benefit.

I wouldn't change my brain, it makes me me and it means life's never boring. It would be nice to not live life by the seat of my pants occasionally in terms of appointments, deadlines etc, but that's just me.

Hear hear.

i was being fobbed off for years by my GP telling me I had to just 'lose weight'. Turns out I have 4 autoimmune conditions and fibromyalgia which is probably why I felt so appallingly crap.

ETA- that's why i ended up going private. Sorry, the connection was obvious to me but i have a habit of thinking if I know what I mean then everyone does.

Less than half the drugs for ADHD are amphetamines. There’s non stimulant drugs and drugs such as Ritalin and concerta. Unfortunately I know this because I’ve tried a few of them and I can’t explain the benefits of them to someone who doesn’t understand what it’s like to have your mind quietened down enough so that I can function properly without distractions.

It’s true you don’t need medication for ADHD but as someone who’s always had to try harder in school because I was late teens when I got diagnosed, I can tell you the difference was immense. I felt so sorry for the child in the show, it’s cruel to stop medication for television and I’m genuinely not surprised he ended up back on them because school is one of the hardest things with ADHD due to the amount of distractions. It’s not an aspect of the child either, I really wish people could get inside the minds of people with ADHD and then they’d understand, most people wouldn’t last a day but to us we’ve never known any different but that doesn’t take away the struggles to perform in everyday life.

I felt it was a cruel experiment on one child who was used as a pawn in an obsessive’s argument. MP also did not point out how underdiagnosed it is in the UK and how under treated it is. There was a fairly recent NHS ADHD task force report which highlights this ( see below)and he failed to even acknowledge it in his rush to create a picture fitting in with his view which he continually writes about in right wing media.

“England and the rest of the UK have much lower service recognition and treatment rates of ADHD diagnosis compared with other European countries (e.g. Norway, Denmark, Spain). Recent data show a very high level of under-recognition and under-treatment of strictly diagnosed ADHD, with significant inequalities in access to care (e.g. minority groups). For example, for those who meet strict diagnostic criteria for ADHD, fewer than one-third of children have contact with any type of mental health service,and only 15–25% of adults and children obtain pharmacological treatment.”

It’s highly recognised that more and more of us are having to resort to private diagnoses for all sorts of thinks thanks to very long NHS waiting lists.

And no one is going to bother paying privately to assess/ diagnose a condition that they don't have reason to think that they have.

Do you have children or family members, or even friends, who have been diagnosed and/ir medicated? Or is this simply based on your own personal prejudice?

Exactly. It’s sooooo expensive.

I certainly didn't think the documentary was once sided or dangerous. I thought it handled the subject - and the boy who features - with great care. They were clear about the downside of coming off the meds - his reduced ability at school.

And they didn't come to any extreme conclusions. They largely left things up in the air. They focused on the respectable and fairly mainstream idea that there is no developmental condition properly called ADHD, and that we are simply deciding, as a society, to medicate people in a largish end section of the normal distribution, so that they can function in a society (and an education system) that rewards a certain neurological cluster in the middle of the distribution, or at its far end. That leaves the ball in the court of society, really. How do we want to change.

I was most struck by the fact that the presenter had no disability whatsoever but was diagnosed with ADHD.

At school we have certain students that you can tell before you've finished saying "good morning, how are you" whether they've had their meds. It's a difference between them being in a classroom and able to learn something and not being able to keep them in the room (either because they can't keep themselves in, or they're repeatedly disrupting others)

There's a whole seperate discussion about the suitability of mainstream schooling and appropriate provision, but to make the most out of the current education system and the doors it opens into adulthood, medication can be the decisive factor in keeping children in school, learning and developing other coping strategies.

By adulthood brains have matured more and many do find more suitable ways to live with the way their brain works, but certainly not all.

But you get a free car, house and £1000 a month for having an adhd diagnosis, plus you dont have to do any work at work due to reasonable adjustments, or queue for anything and have an excuse for any sort of flakiness or being late forevermore. Its a really good return on investment. Can anyone really afford to not buy a diagnosis?

(sarcasm btw).

lol what.

never?

millions of people pay for medical diagnosis because nhs lists are so long, or they have private health care or the care is bad or they are not listened to or not enough resources/underfunded ( like endometriosis ) (esp women’s health ). Especially when you hear so many stories of people dying because nhs didn’t do its job properly. I know so many who nhs couldn’t figure out what’s wrong with them, told it’s stress, they went abroad to their home countries, paid. finally figured out and treated. And what about countries where healthcare is not free? Are they supposed to suffer without diagnosis because it’s “never” should be paid for?

including on this very site plenty of mumsnetters went private.

i know so many were paying private saved their life. Literally.

My son is currently doing 6 hours a day at football camp, coming home and going out with his friends to play football. His behaviour is still erratic when the meds wear off. Admittedly, he'd be crawling the walls without the exercise, but I don't think exercise alone is enough. Maybe there are levels of ADHD, of course, so perhaps exercise would be enough for some children.

No they don't need to be like your friend. My son has just been diagnosed with adhd and Autism at 15yrs. I wish school had of said something earlier so that we could have at least looked into it or at the very least listened to what they had to say. Exercise does help regulate adhd for my son and his pediatrician consultant confirmed this but that doesn't mean that adhd isn't a real thing for him. Our consultant did his assessments privately within the NHS framework (she's also very senior in the NHS) and required a huge amount of evidence before hand so it's not even like it would of been easy to get him assessed if we hadn't of had that already.

Anyway the thing is, since his diagnoses (or labels as people like to say 🙄) I have noticed everyone is an armchair expert in adhd and autism - you sound like one too. I live with my child who has both, have listened to all the feedback from his reports and don't claim to be an expert at all on anyone else's child, only mine and I don't always understand everything he does either. And yes he's being medicated when he needs it.

seriously? Many people? You have unbiased credible evidence to back up that claim?

many people are forced to go private for many conditions because very long nhs lists or gp not taking them seriously.

Also even if so, and?

its irrelevant what they want. You still need to pass diagnostic criteria. The tests are also expensive to pay for.

theres people on forums everyday saying they paid told not adhd.

also this logic can apply to any other condition. There’s many people who lied about cancer. Many may want to be sick/disabled. even go more severe than adhd. Maybe to have partner not leave them, sympathy, attention, benefits. Or they just crazy. So why you just the focus on adhd? should we ban all private health care?

Also some of people who may want to have it, it’s same as my sister who wanted to have endometriosis. It was because she suffered horrific pain and wanted answer for why she was feeling that way.

many people want a condition simply because they want desperate answer why they feel crap.

a lot of conditions can mimick adhd. B12 deficiency, low ferritin anemia (which nhs sucks at treating and identifying, sleep disorders, severe anxiety/depression, thyroid (which nhs also sucks at) etc

maybe these people have one of these and are trying figure it out.

I wish people weren't so ignorant. I'm so very tired of the naughty boy/poor parenting/lazy fucker stereotypes and I'm so sick of people making judgements about things that they clearly don't understand.

I have adhd. Diagnosed for free by the NHS if that makes any difference... not that it should, but simply to make it clear that I didn't "buy" my diagnosis.

I am not currently medicated for various reasons, and haven't been for a long time. I don't claim PIP and have never claimed benefits of any kind. Not that there would be any shame in it if I had, but just for the record, I haven't. I have a demanding full time job and I am a higher rate tax payer. I have never asked for reasonable adjustments at work because I have never declared my adhd for fear of the stigma attached to it. Though I'm now the boss, so I can make adjustments of my own that nobody else need be aware of.

I wasn't badly behaved at school. Quite the contrary, in fact, I was a model of good behaviour. I didn't have any reasonable adjustments or extra time in exams, but I excelled academically, got an Oxbridge degree and later a masters which I completed while working full time and raising a young family.

From an outsider's perspective, I am not "lazy". I manage a demanding full time job alongside daily caring responsibilities for two elderly relatives which typically take up 2-3 hours each day. I am a school governor and a charity trustee, and I mentor a young person. I continue to provide practical and emotional support to my young adult dd, who also has adhd. And as a friend, I am known as someone who will step up and support in whatever way might be required.

I do not use my adhd to make excuses for anything. Quite the contrary, I work myself into the ground trying to hide it from people. Those who don't know me well assume that I'm just high energy and super organised. They have no idea of how furiously I'm paddling beneath the surface simply to stay afloat because I don't choose to let them see.

But the fact that others don't see it doesn't mean that I'm not struggling. And the small, inner circle of very close friends and family see a very different version of me from the one that I present to the outside world. One that finds the most basic aspects of daily life an almost insurmountable struggle despite having learned how to hide this very effectively. One that spends many hours and large amounts of money on fixing the impact of those struggles. One that feels constantly compelled to take on more and more responsibilities while simultaneously feeling utterly burnt out and paralysed by how much there is to do already. One that is constantly plagued by guilt and shame about the things which haven't been done while never allowing any credit or recognition for the things which have been achieved. One that forgets to eat and sleep, or simply deprioritises this. One that can't ever wind down and relax. One that constantly fears the paralysis taking over. One that constantly apologises for everything. One that is ultra sensitive to any hint of criticism or rejection. One that is full of self criticism and blame. One that knows how to stay calm on the outside while living with total emotional turmoil within.

Living with adhd is so fucking difficult and I wouldn't wish it on my own worst enemy. If you don't know what it's like, then you are lucky. But perhaps stop assuming that you are in a position to judge because you are merely revealing your ignorance. Please be grateful for that ignorance, and stop adding to the struggles of people who are already struggling enough.

it’s interesting that so many people are angry and defensive about this.
I’ve got two children with a diagnosis of Audhd and autism. One of them is medicated for ADHD with Elvanse.
I’m in my fifties and would probably qualify for an Audhd diagnosis myself. I can see the points made in the documentary about systemic failure, screens, video games. internet, and school routines being far more rigid than they ever used to be: kids taking sats in year 6 for fucks sake!
Im not threatened by what the documentary said because I can see a very clear link between social and environmental stressors and the rise of ADHD. You’d have to be blind not to acknowledge it.

I went to a psychiatrist thinking I had Bipolar or a personality disorder or god knows what, when they suggested I get assessed for ADHD I was shocked because to my mind that was something naughty boys had.

I was ignorant to ADHD and still have it!

But at the other end of the spectrum, you have people like my mother, who would be in her eighties if she was still alive, and very clearly had symptoms of adhd from childhood, long before it was widely recognised and without all of the environmental stressors to which you refer.

She struggled throughout her life with no explanation. Nobody could tell her what was "wrong" with her. Nobody could take away her pain. It is blindingly obvious to me now that adhd was the cause of her many struggles in life, but sadly, she felt it was too late to seek a diagnosis by the time we realised.

So personally, I'm less than convinced that adhd is rising simply because of environmental stressors. I think it just appears to be rising because we are better at identifying it.

That is the NHS standpoint

That isn't necessarily what some consultants are raising concerns about

There is a concern that girls in particular are wanting medication to keep weight down so will request a higher dose, that medication management is poor and that many private assessments are not thorough enough

More assessments certainly need to be done and better management but it needs to be more thorough

So, you're going to quote the research into the long term effects of stimulants on child and adult health are you? Where did you get this information from? Or is it just your uninformed opinion?
You have no idea. The effects of stimulants are short lasting, as it leaves the body quickly. Stimulants have been around for years, and the effects have been tracked for all that time. Stimulants enable children and adults to achieve what they can't do without them. Stop the thousands of thoughts crowding into their heads that make it impossible to stay on task, concentrate etc, which, over time completely ruins lives, and quite often said children/adults end up on the scrap heap. Studies show a surprising correlation between, for example, prisoners and ADHD. Just think, if the correct diagnosis and treatment were given at an early age, these people could have followed a completely different course in life.
My own daughter went from threatened expulsion from school, to becoming a lawyer, with the right treatment for her. Ritalin made an astonishing difference to her, although ultimately we chose a a natural non medication treatment.
Until you've lived, and extensively researched it, you have no idea