Channel 4 ADHD documentary

[crackerjackbaby]

Totally totally one sided. And very dangerous as a result of that. AIBU to think this?

Do you not think theres a correlation between people whose children are desperately in need and can't wait years and those who find the money for a private dx? Both mine have dx in mid teens having 'coped' well up until then with difficulties that might fall in tje scope of NT, certainly not levels that CAMHS would have put them on a pathway for. Only as demands of school rose did the pressure start to cause the symptoms to become more extreme and I have paid for swift access to expert testing, not a positive result.
To the pp who 'struggles to believe in it' I wish you could meet my kids. Perfe tly behaved in s hool, masking madly, want to please. Academicly bright, creative, focused but will underperform at GCSE because the executive function required to master the numerous different approaches and techniques to communicate their knowledge is what's missing. We are slowly learning about neuroscience, the impact of dopamine and serotonin etc, all of which is invisible but mapping is improving and hopefully in a few years ADHD will be accepted as 'real' in the same way that clinical depression is.

The problem.is that nuance is needed. Its much easier to say its parents making excuses, lazy parenting. My kids are not evidence that all ADHD claims are real. There will be some that arent, but that's boring and nit picky and doesn't generate click bait headlines.

Final point..ND in an ideal world would be accommodated so that medication maybe wont be needed. One of mine only takes it when he is in college. He manages 'normal life' and hopefully as an adult he can carve out a life where his occupation wont require it. I suspect the other might be similar. Maybe in the future, some more natural supplements might work better, but while they are tied to the education system and have to fit the round hole, they have to squeeze their square peg into it.

I mean what is the alternative to the ‘overdiagnosis’ argument that myself and others are making? That 15% of all kids need to be on medication for the rest of their lives? Psychiatry is completely based on self reported symptoms. Even the QB test can be influenced by other factors like trauma, autism, sleep, learning disabilities, stress levels, poor nutrition etc

No, no they haven't. Not in the slightest. There is a real difference between children who are badly behaved, and children with ADHD. You have no idea what it's like. Children, and adults, who have it AREN'T all badly behaved, so that's that myth down the drain.

I would have said the same - until I lived with my son.

Do you have any children and, if so, have you ever experienced the evidenced symptoms of ADHD?

Bet you haven’t. Only ignorant people make comments like yours.

Im not sure why being outside and active stops adhd. Arent you just outside and active with adhd?

My son has a friend with adhd and they do a lot of outdoor active stuff together.

His friend does outdoors in such an adhd way. Lots of jumping impulsively off things, extra injuries, forgetting the code for his bike lock or indeed that he had the bike with him at all. Delayed reactions to stuff and missing things like road closed signs , more risk taking so things like the level crossing lights go and he will zip across rather than wait.

I dint know if all this helps him behave at school better.

I think there is some truth to this..maybe the scandal is that our way doing life, especially school, is so restrictive, rigid and divorced from 'natural' ways of living that those with certain types of neurology simply cant navigate it. As you say, with greater flexibility, more fluidity of approach, different ways to assess abilities than multiple written memory tests maybe far fewer people would need meds.

Why do you struggle to believe it? What is your evidence?

It’s disgusting and shouldn’t be acceptable. Wouldn’t be for any other ND condition.

ADHD is diagnosed from symptoms, reported by a combination of the individual, their caregiver, teacher and observations of a mental health professional. There's not a definitive yes/no test. It's a diagnosis given when a person's behavioural symptoms tick over a line on a graph. It's a spectrum. It's also a widely diverse condition, having impulsive, inattentive and hyperactive elements which don't all have to be present for a diagnosis. The problem is that because it's has such a wide scope, it's a catch all diagnosis. People are certainly misdiagnosed as having ADHD, where they show ADHD like behaviour which has an identifiable cause. The problem is that a proper history is not part of the diagnosis. Childhood trauma, such as either a child being a witness, or the victim of DV, presents as ADHD like symptoms in later childhood and beyond. That doesn't mean that ADHD doesn't exist, just that a person with that history may be misdiagnosed. It's worth acknowledging that a mother, who was herself a DV victim couldn't bear the guilt that her 'relationship choices' (putting that in '' because it's so much more complicated than that - she was a victim) caused her child to have significant behavioural struggles. An ADHD label removes that guilt, why wouldn't that mum want and accept that label and then go on to medicate her child on the advice of the experts. However therapy could actually address the ADHD like symptoms and offer a cure. And if the behavioural symptoms improve with therapy to address the childhood trauma, than it was never ADHD.

Please don't equate taking speed for recreational purposes, with the use of ritalin et al for children and adults with ADHD. The effect is completely different. In people with ADHD, there is a part of the brain that isn't working normally. The use of stimulant drugs on these people, stimulate that part of the brain. It doesn't result in a high, like you, no doubt, experienced, far from it. It works to calm the hyperactive brain, calms down hyperactivity, enables the person/child to think straight, without thousands of thoughts crowding their minds and continually driving them to distraction. How do I know? I have it, and so does my daughter. We've been to hell and back. I've researched the whole thing extensively. Oh.... And street speed doesn't have the same effect as prescription meds, so no, it's not the same

Except the “fact” about Scandinavian countries was completely made up and not a reflection of reality.

I will never understand why people with absolutely no qualifications can make a blanket statement that <insert condition here> doesn't exist and it would all go away with more discipline/fresh air/vegan diet or whatever other bullshit.

I have ADHD. No, I didn't pay for the diagnosis. No, I don't claim benefits.

Yes, exercise does help the symptoms somewhat but only at the expense of doing anything else so clearly not a sustainable "cure". Medication has changed my life.

No, it isn't speed.

Apply some critical thinking please.

I don’t believe ADHD is a myth, however i do believe its over diagnosed and used as a cover all for bad parenting. I have two neurodivergent dc ( one of whom is diagnosed with ADHD as well as other things). I have NEVER allowed my dc to use any of their disorders as an excuse, they were raised that it wasn’t a disability but a different ability. They struggle with things that a neurotypical person may not struggle with but they also handle certain things/situations far better than your average neurotypical person. I never allowed them to be medicated because theres no way that i would be giving that shit to a developing brain. As they have grown older they have learned to master their difficulties ( such as impulse control) far better, they are not perfect but then who is? We live in a world where to many people ( parents and children) make a diagnosis and being a victim about it their whole personality!

Genuinely - why are you not "giving that shit to a developing brain". Have you not read the evidence that medicating in childhood can actually improve the brain so it is less likely to be needed in adulthood? I wish my parents had medicated me.

My Ds is 11 and has just started ADHD meds. He’s always been a very active child. He’s walked over a mile to school since nursery. He walks everywhere with me because I don’t drive. We regularly walk up to 10 miles a day. He does 3 physical extra-curricular activities after school and practices one of these daily. He’s out on his scooter after school or on his bike, at the skate park, playing football in the garden or with the neighbours. He’s allowed to game for around 4 hours a week in total. He watches tv for maybe an hour most days. He’s never had a phone. He’s only been on medication a few days but the difference is huge. He says his head is less busy, he can focus, he’s actually sat and read books since starting medication because he can concentrate to do it. Yesterday he built a huge complicated Lego set with me and didn’t get bored or give up like he usually would. His older sister says he’s less annoying as in he’s less impulsive, actually listens, does as he’s asked, isn’t as chaotic. From my own point of view he’s calmer, is able to take in what I say so is doing things the first time I ask instead of it taking several attempts, his response time is faster, he’s less volatile, he’s not wanting constant snacks, his concentration is much improved, he’s not annoying us for a dopamine fix because the medication is allowing his brain to release dopamine and keep it circulating. My mum has noticed the difference.
Slow release cocaine 😂 on the second day he had a nap for an hour half an hour after taking it. Amphetamines actually have the opposite effect on ADHD brains. It calms them down and allows them to function.
It will get very interesting to see how he gets on at high school next month because primary on the last couple of years has been a struggle. He’s not badly behaved, never has been. He’s not been able to focus, is easily distracted, constantly moving, a million thoughts in his head, forgetful, academically behind despite high IQ.
Our diets are good and have been for years. Minimal ultra processed foods, vegetarian, good sleep hygiene, plenty of fresh air and physical exercise. All these things help to regulate him but the medication has been the thing that made the big difference.

I’m also on ADHD medication and Ds says the difference in me is significant too. The house is getting cleaned more regularly so that I consider it clean day to day now. The house is tidy. I’ve done jobs I’ve been putting off for years. My desire for junk food is diminished (although I rarely ate it because I try not to eat UPFs). I’m able to wake up earlier in the morning, I can concentrate on conversations, I can stick to routines that I devise hoping to finally stick to a routine, I’m making more homemade dishes and baking bread again, I’m less irritable, less angry, less frustrated, nicer to be around, more motivated to do boring tasks, able to watch something on tv and not rewind it 10 times because I’ve been distracted by something else. I have less chronic pain and take less painkillers too which is an interesting one. Less anxiety. I’ve always been very physically active, had minimal tv as a child, no computers back then, was always playing out. I was an anxious mess of school refusal from around age 7 and an eating disorder in my teens and 20s. My teenage years were one antidepressant after another with no effect because I wasn’t depressed. It was undiagnosed autism and ADHD. Poor GCSE results, struggled through college and university despite high IQ. Like others in the thread I feel shame and great sadness for that failure to reach my potential when younger. I have a degree and two post grad qualifications including a specialist one but it was a constant uphill struggle. Exams taken in the medical room because I couldn’t cope. Essays on at least one extension because of the prevarication and inability to get started despite my best intentions. Inability to concentrate once I did start. It’s a miracle I achieved anything.
Those saying ADHD isn’t real have no idea of how it impacts on every aspect of life. Brain imaging shows differences. We lack dopamine. We are more likely to suffer addictions and to attempt suicide. It’s not something to be dismissed.

I'm not sure this is a sustainable response.

Also whilst we’re on it, masking. This buzzword making its way through every conversation. How do you ‘mask’ hyperactivity? Or inattention?
You’re either hyper or you’re not? You either paid attention or you didn’t?
My daughter is the inattentive type, this could be proven by her being three years behind in school. She tried really hard to look like she was listening. She wasn’t listening.
And still no one would test her cognition. I was begging for an Ed psych to test her cognition and they said ‘we don’t do that’ but we’ll send off the referral for an ADHD assessment. It’s like all other ND conditions have ceased to exist.
I hear people say ‘oh my child definitely has ADHD but they mask in school!’ Well how do they know that all kids aren’t doing that? I mask happiness at work all day long! We nearly all do.
Masking is a normal part of the human condition, it is a requirement to being a herd animal and to live in society.
I understand it for autism and I see it time and time again. I see many autistic people mask, in work, in the community, at home (ex DP). I struggle to see it with ADHD, because it is a symptom based condition, if you can supress the symptoms and largely achieve what you need to then you are no different to any other person.
I wouldn’t be like this if I didn’t have so many frustrating experiences with the ND parent community with parent’s who largely want an excuse to not parent their children, stop them going to school and who want the whole world to revolve around their child. It’s not their fault, the world is difficult, especially for mums. We have to work, parent, own houses, travel extensively, compete in the ‘who does the most extracurricular activities’ Olympics…. Late stage capitalism, we all want to find a way out of it!

My children's assessment absolutely asked about childhood experiences.

You are quite wrong. Responsible parents seek to make their CHILDRENS lives easier. Medication enables the children to actually concentrate, sit still, and do the work set for them. Applies to adults too. Normal punishment doesn't work for ADHD children. They have no idea why they're unable to act like normal kids.
Children who are naturally spontaneous, gregarious, as you describe, aren't the ones who are in constant trouble.
Children and adults with ADHD ARE different. Having vast experience, and having carried out extensive research, of it myself, I do know what I'm talking about. I got away with a non medical intervention for my daughter, but she was briefly medicated, and the difference it made was phenomenal. From being threatened with expulsion, she started to work to her full potential, eventually becoming a lawyer. With the right intervention, these children can fly. They're intelligent, but are simply unable to settle to fulfill their potential. That leads to other problems, the bad behaviour etc

It's a bandwagon. Even rich and successful people claim they have the condition now, so it is hard to believe it causes any real problems in life. That's not to say it doesn't exist; it is just that it is a fashionable disorder to have. (People aren't queuing up to say they have halitosis or have homicidal impulses, for example.)

Well it's true taking any drug, including aphetamines (which is what ADHD meds are) is bad for you- you take it for the rest of your life, with any drug that comes witrh health issues. The medical professions job is to decide whether the consequences of taking a class B drug for life are less than the benefit they provide.
It's understandable that parents want what medication there is for a condition, but when that condition is essentially just an aspect of their child the decision to medicate has to be very carefully considered.

Arguably young children shouldn’t be expected to sit still as much as they are at school these days.

There are extreme and severe side effects to medications on developing brains, which none of us know the full extent of, and people who make money from selling them certainly don’t want the general public to know about. People need to wake up and wise up.

That's excellent. There are clinicians who are thoughtful, interested in nuance, keep up to date with the research and will consider alternative diagnosis and treatment.

But a history of adverse childhood experience does not forrm a part of the ADHD diagnostic criteria. It's not an exclusion criteria, there's not a special warning or piece of clinical training that says "Hey, if there's a DV history, maybe it's not ADHD" There are just good, experienced clinicians who think about this, and less good ones, who don't.

Theoretically, If your kids had a DV history would you have been happy to consider alternative/no diagnosis and therapy instead of medication?

I'm not even saying that kids with DV history shouldn't get ADHD diagnoses. Statistics would suggest that there will be kids who have ADHD and have also suffered trauma. It would be plausible in that cause that the trauma would impact the ADHD, making it worse. Wouldn't it be great if instead of labelling a child with a condition requiring lifetime medication, they were offered therapy even alongside medication (or while waiting for assessment/diagnosis) to see if that reduced symptoms. Surely removing symptoms permanently through therapy is better than lifetime medication?

Of course I would be happy to consider whatever trained clinicians suggest. Id bloody love my kids to be NT and able to fit into the narrow slot that we have deemed the right one but they dont. I think the reason that many adults with ADHD have been able to be successful is because they've been able, post school to navigate a life, choose a job that suits them.

Watched snippets and was disgusted and had to turn off

There was no balance.

Yes some kids may present with adhd style symptoms due to poor diet, screen time, poor paraenting

BUT as a mum to 3 adhd kids it filled me with rage, especially language around medication use.

My kids were flagged as potential adhders at 3/4 by nhs and monitored. I went to every parenting class, there were zero screens in my house, super careful with diet. My first child at the age of 4 , I used to walk and he would scoot over 5 miles per day just to keep him busy. Id cry wondering what I was doing wrong as he destroyed everything in his path.

School he needed 1:1 to stop him accidentally.hurting himself or others he would leap about despite movement breaks and wobble cushions etc. He was bottom of class, so far behind in reading.

He was diagnosed at 6 and started medication at 7 after me trying everyhtong else and the consultant basically saying it was last option. It was hairy to start and side effects to negotiate but within 6 months I had a child who was flying at school, reading above his age, performing near top of the class. He was making friends and able to sit and do his homework