Stepchild wants to see finances and money spent on his stepsiblings.

[Greenhairedmonstor]

My late FiL who I never met, left school at 15, fell into the right crowd while he was doing a labouring job and ended up with a little empire.

There is something in place that is not quite a trust. It allows SiL to choose to live frugally without working, and has enabled my husband and his brothers an income which supplements their incomes.

Their children will benefit after their parents’ deaths when whatever is in place will be dissolved.

My husband has his own business as well.

My stepchild is 18 and will go to university next month. I also have another stepchild who is 13.

The eldest has asked that now that they are an adult that they want to look at my husband’s finances. Essentially they want an account of any money that is spent on my children and they wanted my husband’s estate to be reimbursed from my share of the house when he dies.

Now Mumsnet always asks, no I was not the other woman, my ex meets more than his share of his financial responsibilities and I also work and rent out a house that I own in my home country that I will eventually return to. Husband’s ex is comfortable and I don’t believe this has come from her.

Inevitably my husband subsidises our life.

This has been a bitter blow to my husband and he doesn’t see how his relationship with his child(ren) will recover.

Where has this come from. It's a very odd thing for an 18 year old to be concerned with. Is he generally resentful of your relationship and your children? What does the 13 year old say?
Regardless, I think your husband needs to talk to his son to make it clear that he will get what he is entitled to , but that he will spend his money whichever way he wants and it's not SSs business.

To be honest if you are 63 I assume your dad is at least in his 80’s?
I’m currently sorting out my dad’s finances after his death and it’s a bloody nightmare. He kept everything secret so we actually have no idea what money he had where. I have spent hours trawling through boxes of papers (going back to 1954!) and I am still not on top of it.
There’s a thing called Swedish death cleansing which is a brilliant idea. Not sure how you would raise it with him though.

Your DH could remind his son that he should be happy that he didn’t marry someone who wanted more children, he could have had two or three half siblings to share the pot with !

Absolutely this!

@Greenhairedmonstor your initial post is quite confusing - but essentially are you saying that:

• FIL's assets are held securely (in a "not-quite" trust) for his grandchildren;
• while your DH and his siblings live they receive income from those assets, but they can't touch the underlying assets;
• when DH or one of his siblings dies, then their children inherit their share of the underlying assets?

It's a very odd arrangement, I wonder why FIL set it up that way?

On the basis of what you describe it seems quite straightforward. Your DH receives some income and that is his to do as he pleases with. DSS will get his share (untouched) when DH dies. End of conversation.

So what is it that makes DSS think he has any reason at all to ask questions about how his father spends his own money? There must be more to it.

Which leads me to advise you to:

• stay out of it if you can - it's your DHs family issue to resolve (I understand you want to advise your DH, but defo don't talk to the step-children yourself)
• get a solicitor who (one who understands the legal arrangement that is in place, whatever it is) to look at it and clarify what the issue is, if any.
• your DH needs to have a calm conversation with his son to understand why DSS thinks he has a claim; if not then explain why; if he does, then they will have to come to some arrangement.

DF's in his 90s but is very well-organised. We know where to find the information but he's still alive and has full capacity so I won't be asking him.

From the apparent fact the husband affords a nice big house, lavish holidays, trips for the step siblings and all this to 3 people who are strangers to the son. This is simple logic and anyone with a brain and wanting to be their parents priority N1 will be concerned about the lavish gifting daddy does.

"...but so is the father living off the Trust"

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand your argument. The father does not appear to be doing that (although one sibling is said to do that).

This would have been set up under the grandfather's will (or perhaps earlier).

This is clearly what the grandfather intended - for his children to benefit from the income but not the capital. And the grandchildren to benefit from the capital but not the income.

"However the moral argument is two people (son and grandson) both arguing over inherited money."

It is not a moral argument at all. The grandfather clearly wanted the son to benefit from the income and the grandson to benefit from the capital.

But that isn't good enough for the grandson, he also wants to reclaim any of the income that isn't spent on him, his full brother or his mother.

That is just incredibly greedy and an attempt at controlling how his father spends his own money.

Has the 18 year old ever worked ?

I am wondering if he is asking due to;

Jobs disappearing due to Ai

How much it costs per year, per month to live
This was on the news recently, with pensionrs receiving the least at 12.5k annually

If he thinks he will receive an inheritance, does he need to work or can he travel the world endlessly (not taking into account care costs for elderly or inheritance tax)

Not many people have a Trust fund

Ai investments or give to a charity or global cause

Could be a combination of all the above

It's normal for assets from a grandparent to be passed down to their own children, with grandchildren only benefitting if they inherit from their own parents on death, or gifts during their lifetime. Your SS is lucky that this arrangement ring fences wealth for him in future.

Your DH needs to calm down and remember his son is young and seems to have unresolved feelings about his dad's relationship, no need for the drama about cutting contact. Your DH should be blunt, assuming he's middle aged and in good health, that any inheritance isn't coming SS way for another 30-40 years and shouldn't factor into his short-term plans. He could suggest how it might benefit SS longer term life choices like pension planning to help him understand what a privileged position he's in.

He's not entitled to benefit from or know details of income your DH receives from the estate now.

I think this is one case that needs some really straight talking of the "you can't be serious...." type

Your DH just needs to spell it out to his DC,

"You surely know how this works - I get the income from all this for my lifetime, to spend how I wish, then you get all of it when I die....what on earth are you talking about, why should you be recompensed for anything?"

And then repeat.

If they think he should be saving his income/money to give to them then ask them "Why do you think you deserve all the money PLUS all the income, that is just greedy"

Repeat, "they will get an inheritance from the entirety of the trust, why do they think they deserve more?"

Then also "I spend some of this money on you and some on greenhairedmonstor, why do you think I should pay back the money spent on GHM and not on you, You at the end of the day will get ALL the assets, why do you want more"

And repeat.

This is born of being told by their DM that their money is being stolen from them which is just not true. They need putting right.

The question that needs to be asked is if the father is ever allowed to convert assets of the estate into other assets that are of personal use to him.

For example, he might be allowed to use estate funds to purchase a home for his use. The estate would be the technical owner of the home, not the father.

This is where things start to get murky. If the father has other family members living in that house with him when he dies, they may not have any right to the house as it belongs to the estate.

this is why I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the son to be asking questions. These are the kinds of things that should be made clear when people are not grieving.

this is one of the exact scenarios I face. If my father dies first, his girlfriend is technically nothing more than a lodger in what automatically becomes my home. Neither one of us are happy about that situation. I’m not a monster so I won’t be evicting her, but I also know the estate may be broke from care fees by the time my father dies and I may not have the funds to pay the taxes and upkeep.

transparency isn’t necessarily money grubbing. These are real problems and real people’s. My personal concerns are about protecting myself from liability and making sure his girlfriend isn’t homeless more than making sure I end up rolling in cash.

People just hear trust and inheritance and assume people are greedy.

.. .especially when he is aware much of the funding originates in a trust which his grandfather settled (if that is what has happened; it isn't clear what like a trust but not a trust actually means) and is aware of a clear intention that the trust corpus is in fact intended for the grandchildren - and that probably the grandfather did NOT intend to benefit parties unconnected to him.

The father may still have a right to do so, but the desire to understand the full picture is the sign not of a "scrote" as so many pp charmingly dismiss this young man as, but of a thinking individual who wants to understand and ensure it is being correctly followed.

He sounds jealous of any money being spent on your children and probably you too. He really has to get over that otherwise his whole life will be consumed by it. He probably in his own mind thinks he's an adult and has a right to ask questions. Unfortunately he's got that very wrong and he just looks like an unpleasant brat. Your husband needs to have a very straightforward conversation with him and probably your step son would benefit from some counselling.

Exactly.

People let their jealousy cloud their judgment.

The boy sounds switched on.

"...but it's pretty obvious that the spirit of the trust is that ultimately the assets should benefit the people within the biological family and not OP and her kids."

No, it really isn't "pretty obvious" at all.

The grandfather clearly wished the grandchildren to benefit from the capital and the children to benefit from the income.

The income is not intended in any way to benefit the grandchildren (unless the terms of the "not a trust" say otherwise) - they get the capital.

The children could give the income to charity, blow it on booze and drugs, or any number of other things. The OP's DH appears to be spending at least a proportion of it on his second family.

I really don't see why it is "pretty obvious" that he should not do that.

@NotRachem Have I missed something? What is the actual grandchild going without?

But isn't there a difference between understanding what he will be entitled to in the future, and wanting to know how school events are being paid for? This young man seems to be implying that any income from grandfathers asset should come to him, whereas in fact it's his dad's to spend as he pleases. It could be that a discussion will clear this up, but unfortunately there are people who will look at a parent spending as taking money out of their inheritance and if he is in this camp, it doesn't bode well. No wonder his dad's upset.

I understand that your dh wants to keep the relationship with his ds on track. Could he maybe give him some figures showing how much he spends on him and his sibling, maintenance, uni support and anything else he contributes to then compare it to what he pays towards for your children. He can obviously spend his money however he wishes and has no obligation to do this but assuming the figure for his own children is higher would it maybe help the situation.

Your DH should point out that he can spend his income from the trust on anything from pedigree guinea pigs to crack cocaine, it is no-one’s business but his. And that he intends to live a long life, so his DS shouldn’t start counting the pennies yet.

This.

I wouldn’t, it’s a short hop from there to having to justify expenditure of his own money

There is alot to unwrap here. The income generated from the trust is given to the children of the FIL - great nice and simple, there is no claim on this by the grandchild and he has no access to it other than what the Father wants to let him have or give. He is entitled to nothing, as a parent Father may use some of it to pay his way with regard to university costs, and indeed the government may conclude he gets NO LOANS and Father and Mother (note not step mother) have to contribute. If the Father uses this money to pay for a house and other half siblings that is also no concern of the 18yr old grandchild. In fact if the house is jointly owned it likely goes to his current wife on his death and has no involvement in the trust whatsoever having been paid for with the income not the capital. It is likely that all siblings will need to die before any of the capital in the Trust is paid out. So Granchild will have a long time to wait. Also interestingly what happens re children of the Father that were born after the Trust was set up? Was allowance made for them? There is so much to untie. But no no compensation re house and money from income spent elsewhere goes to anyone.

Best case is that Granchild stuggling to understand it and wants clarity, worst case he hates all family other than his Dad. Only he knows that.

Personally I would as DH visit a solicitor clear up a few matters then take Son there and have a joint discussion around what the trust thingy is and means and that the current income from that is none of his business

So you grandfather owns X (stocks/share house for example). It generates a passive income (dividend/rent/whatever) that goes to your DH and his siblings.

When your DH/Siblings die...the "X" will be sold and proceeds to your DSSs and their cousins. So they get "XSold".

Your DH gas zero influence on "X" itself(rennovation/future value). No impact on what "Xsold" value will be. But gets the income for now.

He also has his own job/income.

Your DH has money. He spends it. He could spunk it up a wall. Or squirrel it away. Be Scrooge. Or Lord Bountiful. Regardless, ""XSold" remains the same.

Your DSS's only concern could be if your DH was impacting on "XSold". If your DHs spending does not impact this...then your DSS can fuck right off.

Oh and your DH needs to sort his own Will out pdq