I get that a&e is busy, but was not expecting to be spoken to so rudely

[mitsicar]

Went to a&e tonight. I have a foreign object stuck in my ear. I did not know it was in there until someone looked last night before I left my house and said i should get it looked at. Wasn't able to go to a&e today as my son had his own medical appointment in another city that I have waited months for and we were in a hotel for last night. There was no way I was cancelling it for my own ailment.

The pain has got significantly worse. Have shooting pains into my jaw and cheek bone and my ear is making clicking noises. This is since about lunch time today. Went to a&e this evening and the triage nurse asked me how long it had been in my ear. I said I suspect a few weeks, but I thought I just had an earache and it went away after a while so thought it was gone. Got some new foam ear plugs last week (which obviously pushed the foreign body in further!) and am now suffering for it. I hadn't finished when she cut me off and said 'well I don't really understand why you have picked this evening to come to a&e' and told me I would be better off going to my GP. I am in some pain but ended up leaving because she just made me feel like I had done an awful thing by heading straight after my son's appointment. I spoke to 111 earlier in the day and they told me to go to a&e asap because I could risk my hearing and that whilst it isn't life threatening, it is both an accident and an emergency. I asked if I could wait until morning and they said no. This was the 111 dr not the triage staff. I have no idea if this is the correct advice.

AIBU to think I didn't do anything wrong? I told her a medical professional has looked at it (a friend of mine who is a dr of 30 years) and said it needs ent because of how far in it is and she actually rolled her eyes at me and said I should see an actual GP (I suspect by that she meant my own GP?) and that a&e were sending everyone to minor injuries and that cases like mine are the reason she now has a 6 hour waiting list.

Is this normal for a&e now? Is it so awful working there that being rude has just become the norm or do most people have a better bedside manner? I haven't been to a&e since I was a child and was really shocked by the way I was spoken to, after being advised to go there by 111 and a trusted friend who is a medical doctor (GP).

To add, she didn't look in my ear.

Would you have done anything different? Am I missing something?

A and E will see all sorts. From critical emergencies to someone coming in because they couldn't get a GP appointment for a minor ailment.

The OP has already said that she was advised to go to A and E through 111 and other people who are medically trained- she did the right thing based on the advice she was given.

However, nobody actually knows what else that particular nurse had to deal with that day. Just think of other possibilities that came through that triage and what may lead an A and E nurse or doctor to feel they need to vent when someone has not sought medical attention for a few days (I understand the OP's predicament) and then come in.

This professional was perhaps a little stressed and frustrated and possibly feels themselves that they could have communicated their message of "this isnt urgent" to the OP much better, but they're human. It's happened. They probably don't feel they handled it that well, or maybe they do because they truly believe that compared to the rest of the cases in clinic at that particular time, it would have been better to not go to A and E. Who knows?

Yes, it probably was rude - but could you do that job? I know I couldn't and I know the stress and emotional stress would be my main reason which is why I'm saying it isn't a great reaction, but I can understand it. Let's look at what else can be done now. 😊

I hope things are sorted now OP.

Our GP surgery is known for being overstretched and we recently had an influx of 2000 odd new homes built in a series of huge estates with no corresponding infrastructure. The surgery pretty much sends everyone to A&E because they can't cope - they are known for it and when you turn up to A&E and say what surgery you are under you are just met with eye rolling from the staff because they are fed up with it too. It's all quite wrong and I know everyone who works in the system is just wrecked by it.

It isn’t a GP matter. I had the same issue with an earring back stuck in my ear and the GP refused to even touch me and sent me to A&E, where the triage nurse numbed my ear and removed it in about a minute (after waiting for hours because, yes, minor!). OP was in exactly the right place with the right person, who by being finicky has wasted everyone’s time and maybe increased OP’s risk of side-effects.

Ok as a nurse practitioner with 30 yrs A&E/UCC experience and now work in GP practice, I know how to remove a foreign body (FB) from an ear and it’s all about having the right equipment. Most GP’s don’t have the equipment or expertise to remove an FB and wouldn’t attempt it unless it was easily retrieved with simple forceps. You’d think removing a FB was easy but sometimes it isn’t, depends on what it is, there isn’t much room in there and the walls of the ear canal are very sensitive and can be damaged really easily. So actually the best place to do this is usually A&E/UCC/MIU and may need ENT to recover it. Some FB’s sit in the ear for years without people knowing about them but if they’re causing infection then they must be removed. The triage nurse who you spoke to has probably never had to remove a FB and yes they’re busy but they had no right talking to you like that.

As a doctor - GP and have worked in A&E/still do odd extra shifts, I actually dont think you did anything wrong. GPs would refer to A&E or direct to ENT if possible depending on your local area services, majority of GPs wouldnt manage this. FB in early is very common A&E presentation.

There's no need for nurse to be rude. Yes we are all over worked & stressed but doesn't mean be rude to patients.

111 is useless. Most drs I know hate & dont trust the service. Its advice is scripted by non medical staff & there threshold for referral to A&E is ridiculously low, however again this is not the patients fault. Ive seen many patients who said i never considered coming to A&E for whatever their complaint was however 111 told me I must immediately (and was always something minor non urgent ). Again thats government/ NHS issue managing resources poorly rather than patient.

There are loads of time wasters in A&E, GP and everywhere in healthcare unfortunately but this isnt a example.
Hope you get it sorted. Minor injuries is perfect place to get this sorted. Only alternative is GP if they have local same/next day clinic to refer to which varies across uk7

Firstly OP wasn’t in A&E. The triage nurse was minor injuries and the only reason she was ‘stressed’ was because there was a long waiting list. OP also said that she didn’t let her finish what she was saying about having a simple earache and only discovering the foreign body the previous day. Had she not interrupted she would possibly have had a different opinion based on actual fact, not supposition - isn’t fact what’s needed when taking a medical history ?

Secondly, her own GP directed her back to A&E the following morning - as many posters with medical experience have said here, most GP’s are not set up for this sort of thing and will refer to whatever other services they have available in their area. In OP’s case A&E, so entirely appropriate that that’s where she should have gone in the first place, as she was subsequently sent through to minor injuries.

We know the NHS is on it’s knees and we know staff are overworked, but there is absolutely no excuse for an HCP to be so rude and dismissive of a patient that they leave without treatment. Yes, the decision to leave was on OP but it’s hardly surprising having been treated so badly just for having the temerity to ask for help. And now it appears that the condition is much worse, so treatment is likely to take longer and cost more. Looking at what else can be done now, I’d suggest that the route for appropriate care be made much clearer and more easily and quickly accessible for those who need it, instead of blaming the patient for a system that is clearly broken.

You definitely didn't need to go to a and e

At a push a walk in especially if it has been in there a while

People take the mick at a and e going for absolutely nothing cases like this, and you often see entire families there like it's a jolly day out

For goodness sake @Easterchicken and other PPs. The OP was TOLD to go to A&E by her GP.

@mitsicar I hope you have got this sorted and are recovering.

So you're saying her GP was wrong and you know better based on a MN post than her GP who saw her in person.

If you think it's advisable to take medical advice from such people I'd suggest you're not the best person to be giving it!

Sorry that you're going to a&e often - i hope it's not because you think it's advisable to listen to internet strangers over your own HCPs.

Ridiculous comment. How is she self-involved? For going to minor injuries, for asking a friend who is a Dr to give a view, for waiting weeks and not bothering anyone, for putting her son first (rightly)? Do explain the self involvement?

BTW minor injuries do not "patch up road crash victims". No need for the dramatic language for effect and no factual basis for your remark.

My nearest hospital you have to check in with A&E for everything, the receptionist then directs you left to A&E, right to Minor Injuries or across the car park to Urgent Care.

That is the only way of accessing these services so everyone describes it as going to A&E.

The OP has already said her hospital has the same set up, so when she went to A&E they directed her to Minor Injuries. Which is exactly where she should have been.

Hopefully the delay hasn’t caused any harm and the OP is feeling better now.

OP was told to go to A&E by 111 and having been sent through to minor injuries, that was where she encountered nurse nasty.

OP also updated that yesterday morning she woke up with hearing loss and a pool of blood from her ear - does that sound like ‘absolutely nothing’ ? When she rang her GP they told her to go to A&E again. What else would you suggest she do, since A&E was absolutely the appropriate place to go in the first place ?

Yep. This. Same here. We’ve now got 32 pages of people essentially saying the same thing and clearly not reading the updates or they would know that OP had been told to go back to A&E yesterday morning by her GP, and hopefully by now has been treated.

Good point. If you’re not in A&E often yourself how would you know whole families often go there for jolly days out !!

Ridiculous isn’t it ? OP says in the very first post that she was advised to go to A&E by 111. The thread seems to be going round in never ending circles and we all know what happens after that !!

People always lose their minds a little here when a poster asks about going to A&E. 'Stiff upper lip' all the way. Armchair MD degrees out in full force.

Typical Mumsnetter....
"Nah....you don't need A+E for that. Just put a wet paper towel on it and take a Disprin"

It sounds as if this has become urgent and in the ear could cause very serious problems as infection could leak into the brain. A and E normally have a triage system which would determine next steps. Being judgemental is not acceptable by any health care professional. Despite or because you have left it so long A and E is the right place.

Looks like the ear nose and throat specialist is still inside OPs ear drum somewhere…

Surely you mean ‘junior Disprin’. The adult version would be excessive in these circumstances 😆

Yes. You are correct 😂

I hope that it's now sorted. For what it's worth, you did exactly the right thing. Rang 111, who told you to go to Minor Injuries (attached to your locals A&E), so you did. The nurse was rude and should NOT have sent you away. It's perfectly understandable for you to leave it so long, thinking it's earache, because who wants to bother any aspect of the NHS with minor stuff right now?

When you realised it wasn't minor, you sought help. But even then, you didn't rush to A&E or your GP. You STILL tried to reduce your load on the NHS, by ringing 111.

Everyone getting on at you can't read. Or comprehend. Or both.

Healthcare workers' anger is misplaced. Government has underfunded and cut the NHS so badly that many departments are operating on bare bones and sheer good will of the workforce, and sometimes there is nobody to blame other than the patients.

Yes there are those who abuse the system, who come into A&E/MI because they are not registered with the GP/health tourism/minor issues they could go to a pharmacist or GP for. However there are those with life-threatening injuries waiting hours for ambulances, and those for whom an ED is the right place to be because there are no other services available. Health workers are tired and see people abuse the system and so this is where much of their ire is directed, when it should be directed at no.10 Downing Street.

Yes, I know what happens in A and E and probably could do that job. I have been a hospital consultant for over 20 years. In my early years as a junior, I was doing 56 hour shifts, a large part of it spent in A&E. It was pretty damn stressful but I never let myself be rude to patients. No regrets.

This is nonsense, nobody knows why a whole family might necessarily be there, nobody sees it as a jolly day out