AIBU to think cats should not roam unsupervised like dogs?

[estrogone]

AIBU to think that if you dont leave your dog to roam streets unsupervised, then you shouldn't let other pets (cats), for the same reasons.

It blows my mind that people let their cats out because their sleep is disrupted and I wonder why they think its OK, when its highly unlikely they would put Fido outside if he kept the family up.

So @Seriestwo pronounces average life expectancy of a cat is 2. Is challenged and says 'no - here's a study'. Posters read study and note Series' statistics are not borne out. Indeed said study says

"Overall life expectancy could not be assessed in the present study owing to the use of data from an ongoing cohort study with cats not yet in their senior years"

Series' then tells us that as MN isn't an academic conference she won't detail her analysis but she is happy with it.

Series then pivots and says it was actually her vet who advised of the average life expectancy but now specifies it related to young cats - not what she first declared but again the paper doens't reach this conclusion. The Bristol paper suggests that more focus is needed on probabilty of death in younger cats as "This study identified important differences in causes of mortality for the first two life stages in a population of cats that may not be fully accounted for in medical record" and it also agreed with Teng et al (cited in Series' study)

"the overall life table for cats under primary veterinary care in the UK in 2019. The life expectancy at age 0 for UK companion cats was 11.74 years (95% CI 11.61–11.87), and the life expectancy decreased with age (Figure 1). The probability of death within each year interval increased with age from year interval 3–4, and the value did not exceed 0.05 before year 9. The probability of cats dying in year 1–2 (0.047) was higher than in years 0–1 (0.039) and 2–3 (0.041)"

Honestly did you read it before you posted?

What is judgemental about asking why we care more about a dog, rabbit ir Guinea pigs safety than we do cats. Not a judgement. An observation and a question about the logic.

I think people deliberately dig their heels in because my point stands - letting their beloved cat wander about puts them at risk, that we wouldn't think was acceptable for another species. That makes people feel uncomfortable.

If I’d let my rabbits or guinea pigs roam I’d have never seen them again! Any dog I’ve ever owned preferred to sleep all night on a nice bed. My cats however much prefer to be able to come and go as they please, trying to keep them in would be cruel. And almost impossible, they see an open door or window as a challenge. I appreciate cats have different preferences, but their natural instincts generally are to hunt at dawn and dusk. I am lucky in that I live in rural Scotland- where there are wild cats incidentally- and my cats have acres of fields and woodlands to explore. They are well taken care of, flea’d, wormed etc etc , but it would be cruel to keep them in the house.

@MyOtherProfile

i remember dogs roaming in the late 70’s and the pavements were caked in excrement consequently. In the early 80’s things quickly changed

Yes, several of our cats have been hit by cars over the years. As luck would have it, every single time a driver has scooped them up and taken them to the vet who has then contacted us. We’ve had cats live to 23/24 so they are pretty resilient.

our dog is super happy going out for long walks, off lead mostly, and is trained to return. I have had cats all my life and even the most well trained would not come to call across two fields if there was a bird to be chased.

normal life presents normal circle of life risk to all animals including humans. Read the stats on car travel - does that mean I won’t get in a car? Of course not, it’s become part of our normal risk that we take in order to live life fully.

our cats are fulfilling their natural way of life - and I say natural because they are allowed to come and go as they choose and every single one of our cats has chosen to wander widely, as evidenced by every accident being miles away from home! I don’t worry about them any more than I do my teenagers taking their normal developmental steps - going to parties, starting relationships, travelling alone - because it’s more important to embrace natural development than hyper focus on risk.

Wildlife kills other wildlife too. How are you going to prevent that?

You would be ok with them dieing frightened and alone and in huge pain, rather than cosy in catio at night and a pet proof garden in the day?

This confuses me. Its a double standard with other species.

No, cats are meant to roam. Though this is the reason I don’t have any as I’d be worried sick about them getting injured unless I could afford to cat-proof my garden. Hence I have dogs. And children, though I wish the DC would roam a but more just to have some peace LOL

Because risk isn't inherently a bad thing, but you seem to deliberately not understanding that.

I used to keep my cat inside but it made him unwell. I would rather risk his life on the roads than keep him locked up and medicated.

The word catio should be banned. It’s a cage.

The problem is that your cat isn’t part of ‘nature’ in the same way the foxes are.
The foxes are part of our native wildlife. We’ve stripped back most of the land that they would inhabit by building on it but they have become very successful at living alongside us. Which is good for them, because things they can’t manage to live alongside us are struggling for survival.

Cats have instincts, yes, but they aren’t natural. They aren’t part of our ecosystem. Unless you are talking about Scottish Wildcats which are highly threatened in the UK (and one of this threats is cross breeding with domestic cats…).

Taking sheep etc is a disaster for the farmer but not an issue for native wildlife. It’s just not a straight comparison. I’m not saying it’s not horrendous but it’s comparing cucumbers and bananas.

Leave nature alone, by all means but recognise your cat isn’t part of nature. Being part of nature means if it doesn’t quite catch enough food it will die of starvation- that’s never going to happen to your cat is it?

Take the risk out of the equation. What about pain, fear, a lonely death.

Why not put proof a part of the garden?

Because you are curtailing their natural instincts to run, chase, hunt, climb. And most of us don’t want to curtail the natural instincts of our animals to that extent. If I couldn’t allow them free rein then I wouldn’t choose to keep them.

I always find it interesting how against indoor cats people in the UK are - where I am from it’s very common to have indoor only cats or with the only outdoor access being a cat proof garden or catio. Most rescues and breeders will only rehome or adopt as indoors only.
One of my girls is white with pink nose and ears so high risk of skin cancer. It’s better for her health to be indoors.

That is not what this study says at all! Did you read it?

Stop anthropomorphising.

Agree, same as other small animals that love exercise and freedom.

Pet proof Gardens are a thing, for some reason we dont think cats deserve safekeeping.

What has letting cats out at night got to do with the difficult parts of cat ownership? I would never shut my cats out of the house at night. But they have a cat flap so can go out if they choose? It doesn’t make my life easier/harder either way! One of my cats wakes us up every night, one never does. There is no correlation with them being allowed outside. Sometime we do have to shut them in, they don’t wake us up more. I’m confused about your argument.

In uk cats have a right to roam, dogs don’t. Simple as that.

How do you have cat proof garden for the day?
Cats can jump higher than the maximum height for a garden fence in the UK.

I'd argue that you don't care much about a rabbit, guinea pig, hamster, budgie, if you choose to keep one cooped up in a cage or run all its life. I'd far prefer to be a cat, free to roam, than a caged animal.

I’ll flip that question - why are you more worried about highly unlikely risk than the day to day happiness of your animals?

it seems like you are meeting your needs - your terror of any kind of risk - rather than theirs.

i would rather my animals have a short but natural fulfilled life than a long one with their metaphorical and natural wings clipped.

I don’t find it uncomfortable at all, there’s risk inherent in everything we do - some risks more acceptable than others, and we balance risks against each other.

For me the risk that my cat might be injured in the community was much less than to risk he would be miserable and frustrated as a house cat. What point is a long life if it’s a miserable, anxious one? My cats were all prowlers and hunters, not really built for a catio - they had gloriously happy, long, life’s.

Oh God. That is just a lazy excuse. Do you think, if your cat is knocked down and crawls in pain to the side of the road, they would not feel fear. Get over yourself.

Just stand by the fact that you don't care.

Because it's not the same as letting them roam and it makes my cat miserable and unwell to be locked up (even if it's in a "pet proof" garden). I would rather he took his chances out and about than lived a risk-free but miserable life on medication.

I was just about to post saying to my mind a catio is just a big cage that happens to be outside! My cats would hate it , tantalisingly close to being outside but not quite.