To say Dd 16 can't live at her dad's house?

[randygiles824]

Sorry, this may be long.

Dd 16 is the eldest of 4 children that I share with ex husband. We have had them 50/50 for years and it has until recently worked okay.

Ex husband lives between two houses - with his new partner and her children on the days that he doesn't have our kids, and lives in his own house on the days that he has ours. His new partner and her kids are nice enough, there just isn't enough space for mine and ex husbands kids to stay when he has them.

In recent months, dd16 and dd14 have both ended up in hospital due to incidents that occured whilst staying with ex husband, one was serious enough to require surgery. I feel he was neglectful and that both of these incidents could have been prevented to an extent. There has also been reports from the younger ones (11 and 8) that there is no food in the house when they visit, their clothes aren't washed, they're allowed on the xbox for 10 hours at a time, there's no bedtime, they don't have toothbrushes there ect. As a result, I've told ex husband we are no longer doing 50/50 and he has instead been taking the children out for tea a few days a week.

Dd16 has not coped well with this change and keeps insisting that she is going to move in with her dad, ex husband has told her that she can move into his house. My issue with this, is that ex husband doesn't actually live in his house and has said outright that he won't be staying extra days at his house as he wants to continue staying most nights with his partner especially now that he isn't having the children for half of the week. Dd is in no way mature enough to be left to her own devices for half of the week. Her argument is that I was 16 when I had her and managed to live alone. I don't want that for her, and I don't know how I can change her mind.

Is there any sort of compromise? I dont think a 16 year old is mature enough to live on her own half a week, agree with you there, but also she is on the verge of adulthood and her opinion and wants should be taken on board. Very difficult situation!

I think you need to let her go back to 50/50 with her Dad in an attempt to compromise.

It seems an awfully big change from 50/50 to seeing them for tea a couple of nights a week. Was that at your insistence? Did he not try and fight that?

Isn’t the better thing to do here (for the kids) to reinstate at least some overnights with him, even if it’s not half the week? Insist on him stepping up on things like the washing, a better routine and better meals.

What were the accidents and where was he at the time ? And why could they have been avoided to an extent ?

8&11 still need care and tbh so does a 16yr. The lack of food , toothbrush , clean clothes are basic needs and need to be met

You can say it @randygiles824, but she probably won't listen. Teenagers know everything dontcha know.🙄

It sounds like going from 50/50 to tea a few days a week is too much, too soon for your DC. Can you go to 1 or 2 nights a week or fortnight?

Your DD is 16. Talk it through with her. Explain your worries and listen to her reasoning. Hopefully you'll be able to settle on something that suits you both.

If not, all you can do is let her know she can come home anytime.

Good luck.

Sorry YABU she is 16, the court or social services would let her decide if it came to that. You have to stop trying to control her (even for her own good) and let her make this mistake or you will lose her.

Why do you get to decide what the arrangements will be?

YABU for changing the 50/50.

She is 16. Let her go back to 50/50.

You chose to have 4 children with this man so have to accept his (lack of) parenting style.

What injuries did your 16 & 14 yr old get that you think were his fault? At that age, unless he hurt them (which I assume isn’t the case as you’d have said), I’m not sure it’s really the fault of the adult in the house in most cases. You aren’t watching a 16 year old like you would a toddler.

I’d agree to go back to 50:50, because I imagine if she moves out full time, you won’t be able to do anything to force her to come back.

Another struggling to understand how a 14yo and 16yo could injure themselves in a house and it be his fault? Typically, kids of this age require zero supervision and are meant to have an appropriate understanding of dangers unless special needs are involved.

At 16 she gets a say in where she lives. And can’t you send the kids with a toothbrush if you k ow he hasn’t got any? I would for the sake of the kids teeth.

I understand your concern but if you’re not careful you’re going to get exactly the response from her that you don’t want: she’ll just go. It would help not to overtly oppress her, talk it through and get a plan. Work out with her the practicalities

You are going to find it hard to change her mind and at that age her views will be respected by any court if you choose to go down that route.

she’s obviously unhappy you have restricted contact with her dad. I’d suggest reversing that before she realises she can just move into his house and you have nothing you can do about that,

Can she just stay at her dad's 50/50 without the younger ones as longas her dad is staying there on those nights too? I think you need to be careful about clamping down - she needs to realise that your house is more comfortable/more food etc in her own time as otherwise she will rebel more.

What were the incidents that happened? Were they recent? Firstly this suggests the house is not suitable for them to live in, but secondly they are (especially the 16yo) quite old, so odd they couldn't see things themselves. Unless the actual building is unsafe? Can you work towards some nights at dad's for the 16yo at least?

Despite everything at 16 it’s really her choice and if it went to court they’d go with her views. And if she just went there’s nothing you can do to stop her.

She is 16 she can’t really control the situation. The best thing to do would be to talk to their dad about 50/50 with him present as it was before. Otherwise she could just go anyway and be left alone for half a week

I think they need to go back to some sort of more meaningful contact if you want to prevent this. What were the accidents at 14 and 16 that cold he caused by exh neglect? As they arent 4 and 6 so id expect them to be pretty responsible for their own safety at that age outside of pretty severe asn that you have t mentioned. If they were 4 and 6 then fine. Make sure they take a change of clothes and pack a toothbrush. At 16 you’ll struggle to stop things completely so better that you support something than have her go completely

The incident where dd 16 ended up in hopsital and needed surgery happened after midnight, in a field, where she had been drinking with friends. He has no curfew for the teenagers to be home and does not ask or check where they are going and who with. After this incident he said this would change, but it was only 18 days later that dd14 ended up in hospital in a similar situation - after midnight, had been drinking. Both incidents resulted in a safeguarding referal, no further action was taken either time but I was told that as we have no court orders I could excercise my PR and reduce contact if he was not able to keep them safe. I also ended up taking time off work both times, despite it being his contact time, as he insisted he couldn't care for them when they got out of hospital.

To address some other points , I obviously do send toothbrushes and toothpaste for them along with everything else - clothes, school uniform, toiletries, sanitary items, food and I even provided the bedding for them as he was having them sleep on matresses with no sheets or duvet covers, only a quilt. If it matters, I also paid for their rooms at his to be carpeted and decorated when he first moved in, so I definitely provide more than my fair share !

Dd16 staying for half the week at his is not really an option now either, as he has said he won't be returning to stay in his house if he doesnt have all of the kids 50/50 because he doesnt want to 'sit alone at nighttime' when he could be staying with his partner. So he is telling her she can move into his house, but that he won't be there.

I am really not keen to go back to 50/50 for all of the reasons already mentioned, plus there is other stuff such as him always missing medical appointments if it's on his time, kids are frequently late to school when he has them and there has been a few times where he's let them stay off sick. He also buys vapes for the two eldest and tells them to lie to me about it. I have asked him to go via mediation or apply for a court order, particularly for the younger ones, but he is not willing to do that.

At 16 they can make their own decisions, you might not agree with them nor think they are safe but ultimately it will be there decision. I’m another who can’t understand how a 14/16 ye old can have an accident and it be his fault ? At this age they don’t need supervision.

Ok well those weren't "accidents" those were your children making really stupid decisions and their stupid father enabling it.
Having said that, I'm not sure how one forces a 16 year old to stay home if they don't want to or to come home if they're out.

Your DD is old enough to decide where she spends her time. But she's also old enough to understand your concerns for her safety.

I think I would suggest to her that maybe she spends one or 2 nights with him to see how it goes. You need to let her know you understand that the change was a lot and that you know she wants to spend time with him. But also that you have a level of responsibility for her and that you need to make sure she doesn't come to any harm.

I suspect if she goes over and dad pisses off to his gf house she'll get bored of being there!

Your only other alternative is to make another safeguarding referral and to start court proceedings. But they will listen to the children and there's certainly no guarantee that they shouldn't stay with him.

Actually another thought is why not talk to DD and make sure she understands your concerns and ask her to help come up with ideas that would enable her to spend more time with him but also keep her safe?

Are you under the impression that when your older two are with you and they go out with their friends they don’t drink? But they do when staying with their dad? I would suggest that this is nonsense, unless you don’t let them out at all, so them drinking too much and injuring themself could have happened when they were with you. And I assume you wouldn’t think that therefore you were unfit to have them overnight. Not every teen who injures themselves while out is removed from their parents.

That’s not to say he doesn’t sound completely crap, doesn’t have a suitable home, and if he can’t be bothered to actually fight for access to the younger children then he’s clearly not arsed.

But I’d be careful about being too superior about the injury. They aren’t going off the rails at their dad’s and politely turning down alcohol with their friends when they’re staying with you. Even if you’ve got a curfew, they can (and probably do) still drink before that curfew. So they can still injure themselves.

And all of that is by the by when you’ve got a 16 year old who you can’t really stop moving in with her dad, even if he’s so shit he won’t spend time there with her. No matter how right you might be about him being shit, she might well find a house that is all to herself a couple of nights a week really appealing.

Hopefully your dc have learned from those incidents! Let’s face it I don’t think dd will last long in the empty house with no food if what she actually wants is to live with her dad. She’ll probably realise from this that he’s a bit useless after all

He sounds like a crap parent but in their eyes he must sound amazing!

At 16 she can legally move out and there’s not much that can be done about it.

I would compromise - perhaps not go back to 50/50 straight away - but they can sleep over EOW and still see him during the week for tea.

I disagree.

At age 14/16 my DC still had curfews and told me where they were going.

They could lie about where they’re going, but the curfew meant that they still had some sort of rules.

I never left my 14yo overnight alone either.