AIBU to think public racist / anti immigrant / anti trans posts can justify dismissal?

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

Read a couple of accounts this week of racist, public supporters of the far-right being sacked for spouting race / immigrant / trans hate on their personal social media accounts.

One was a doctors receptionist.
The other a school learning support assistant.

Both roles where they are likely to work with people in the groups they're publicly trashing online. One was recorded at a far-right rally, speaking about the amount of immigrants she was forced to support in her line of work.

What is your opinion on this?

YABU - People should be able to express their opinion without fear of losing their job. Freedom of speech.

YANBU - Anyone with any kind of public facing role/a role where their employer is likely disapprove of this should not publicly post this way and needs to understand that being sacked is their own fault.

I remember seeing a you tube video with an American woman and her husband on a flight and she was seated next to a Maga supporter. She tried to get him seated elsewhere because she wasn't happy. Fortunately, the cabin crew saw sense and relayed the incident to the pilot. She and her husband were removed from the aircraft. Her arrogance went against her that day.

All the lies you reference here are fundamentally subjective judgements.

Pretending a man is a woman is not. It's a contradiction of an objective fact.

And of course it's detrimental for women. You make it much harder for women to fight for their single sex spaces and services when you make it necessary for them to argue why 'she' has no rights to such spaces.

Protecting women's rights is dependent on us being able to use clear, unambiguous language. Which is exactly why the TRAs have put so much effort into dismantling this language.

I haven’t found it hard to advocate for single sex spaces whilst also treating people kindly though. Being called She is not sufficient to access female only spaces, any more than calling myself Mrs gives me access to legal benefits of marriage if I’m not married. They are terms that describe something tangible and also insufficient to access that tangible reality. I just don’t think it matters. And if someone refuses, I don’t think it matters either, I just think it’s a bit pointless.

This is deliberately disingenuous. Of course it's harder to argue why 'she' shouldn't have access to women's spaces, rather than 'he'. Denying that is just silly.

And there is nothing kind about lying. In fact I think it's much worse to encourage a trans identifying man by calling him 'she' and then turn round later and say he has no rights to women's spaces. Much better to be honest and clear from the start.

Inclusivity without thought often results in unanticipated consequences! I definitely see that rush to be inclusive no matter what that means for anyone. I think that’s also a consequence of the funding situation over the last 15 years, where funders are either looking to fund ‘inclusive’ (that by definition often don’t meet the differing needs of specific groups) and services restructure or reframe accordingly. And social media has amplified it, so organisations are afraid of the reputational
impact because they are so dependent on the financial landscape.

It makes me complicit in propping up an ideology which I find to be harmful. It’s coercive and oppressive towards me to be forced to do so. So no, it’s not the same.

Good for you, I do think it matters.

This.

You can find it however you wish, I have never found it difficult to day ‘Linda is a trans woman, therefore she is not eligible for our female only group’. Linda is a trans women, therefore she does not need a cervical smear. Larry is a trans man, he would like to join our female only group.’

It’s easy to say. You might find it hard, and I accept there are many timid voices who do, but don’t assume we all do.

I don’t find it hard because I’m never going to call a man a woman. Whatever your thoughts on the matter.

“Linda is male, therefore Linda is not eligible for our female only group.”

much clearer

I've no idea!

The organisation serves an area that includes a city with a bigger than average LGBT community and has a fair few trans/NB staff, so it could do. You'd get a bollocking if you misgendered someone, if they reported it. I've never heard of anyone getting reported for it though.

It could be a minefield though. There were a couple of gender-fluid people, and I just referred to them as "they" for fear of getting it wrong. It was a relief when we were all told to put our pronouns in our email sigs.

“Linda is male and has no cervix, therefore Linda has no need of a cervical smear. However Linda has a penis, testicles and a prostate so will need to be invited to male screening appointments”

That’s it - I knew you could do it!

They’re on very dodgy ground mandating pronouns in signatures I think. Firstly not everyone “trans” wants to come out of the closet, and secondly it could be seen as harassment of people with gender critical beliefs.

Yes lovey that’s exactly what I said I would do from the start, isn’t it? Would you like me to bump the post?

There you go @Switchnow

Lovey? Is that you Keith?

So you’re comfortable calling a man a woman’s name, but not ‘she’. Makes no sense to me but each to their own.

Who says Linda is a a woman’s name? If a man has it, it’s a man’s name if he wants it, no?

People can call themselves whatever wild and wonderful things they want. I mean I could just call Linda Dave, but that might not have even been his original name so it’s a bit rude really.

General question on pronouns for those who won’t use ones they think wrong - are you ok with they/them for either sex, and are you calling trans men she, and comfortable accommodating them in women’s spaces?

I feel the same about pronouns. They’re just a social convention and have no specified legal or medical meaning.

Kind of ok with they/them as a neutral although I find it annoying in sentences. I think it’s bizarre that you don’t grasp that any objection to men being called “she” is equally applicable to women identifying as “men”. And yes, they’re women, women’s spaces are not off limits to women of a masculine appearance.

Again, that’s great. You do you and I’ll do me 😊