AIBU to think public racist / anti immigrant / anti trans posts can justify dismissal?

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

Read a couple of accounts this week of racist, public supporters of the far-right being sacked for spouting race / immigrant / trans hate on their personal social media accounts.

One was a doctors receptionist.
The other a school learning support assistant.

Both roles where they are likely to work with people in the groups they're publicly trashing online. One was recorded at a far-right rally, speaking about the amount of immigrants she was forced to support in her line of work.

What is your opinion on this?

YABU - People should be able to express their opinion without fear of losing their job. Freedom of speech.

YANBU - Anyone with any kind of public facing role/a role where their employer is likely disapprove of this should not publicly post this way and needs to understand that being sacked is their own fault.

No thank you; I am not the OP and I addressed the last paragraph only on purpose.

Of course, people with different experiences/knowledge/conclusions than you are stupid and only think differently because it’s politically correct.

Not much point engaging if you’re not doing so in good faith.

I disagree. Both sides have extremism.
Respecting an individual is important, forcing the changes on others is disrespectful.
You can be concerned about immigration and children being taught about sexual preferences and options to change gender without being labelled as hateful.
The link between Autism and transgender gender confusion is undeniable. Society has allowed the vulnerable get trapped.

I am engaging in good faith. You called what I said “bollocks” and then banged on about the police when I wasn’t talking about them, and you’ve just admitted that fear of racism was an issue in the LA as documented in the Casey report, if not a “primary” one. So don’t lecture me on good faith.

So we have LA, a social worker, admitting her prejudices could have influenced her actions. And yet it’s ok for social workers to believe Muslims are dangerous and openly describe themselves as a ‘TERF’ and you think that’s, what, more professional?

NOBODY should be bringing their prejudices to work if they are in a state sponsored role with power over people. They should work on facts, and evidence and if they are unable to do that, they should stand aside. Clearly this is a hard ask, and current conditions mean unsuitable people remain in post and are overworked and under supervised/supported. But surely you want open minds in the profession, not Lisa Arthurworreys and not self declared Islamophobes?

I don’t think I was calling your words bollocks, but the claims of those who used that excuse are, in my view, self-serving bollocks. Sorry if that was unclear. Similarly, you seem determined not to see the difference between ‘this review found some people used this excuse’ and that being accepted by the reviewers as legitimate.

I don’t think snide comments about ‘that poster’ really smack of good faith engagement, so I’ll leave it there.

I didn’t express that view, so don’t put words into my mouth. If prejudice was affecting a social worker’s work with certain groups of people, that’s one issue, and should be dealt with. If fear of being racist or perceived or called racist is affecting their job that should be tackled and if the whole culture is enabling that, that should also obviously be tackled. No?

I’ve been quite clear that I agree that many people used the convenience of “fear of racism” to turn a blind eye to abuse. But I don’t think it was entirely made up, no, or they wouldn’t have been able to get away with it.

Its not 'hate speech' to believe in biological sex.
Its not 'hate speech' to want secure borders.
Its not 'hate speech' to express concern about large numbers of undocumented men wandering around committing crimes/sex crimes.
Being told to ''shut up, there's no problem here'' is why we are in the mess we are in... the left will shout 'bigot' by simply pointing out its Law , not guidance re female only spaces.
The left will shout 'racist' when you ask why exactly large numbers of fit fighting age men are invading our shores.
People will only be brow-beaten for so long before they rise up.

Also Arthurworrey was a junior social worker with less than 2 years’ experience, it wasn’t and shouldn’t have been entirely down to her.

I was very torn voting on this. I am left wing, a woman, an immigrant. I am very liberal. I have what others would perceive as an “alternative” lifestyle. I’m saying all this to almost prove to strangers on the internet that I don’t have hateful views of others. Im tolerant and I understand about punching up and not down. All of those things. I hate the PC gone mad rhetoric. However I’ve recently found myself not speaking out of fear. It’d be an informal conversation on politics between friends and I’d just nod silently. It’s just not worth the stress and fear. An example would be, looking at today’s news about Ceuta, me saying that it’s quite a scary situation that needs strategic thinking from the EU on how to police borders safely. I would be too fearful to say this and I don’t think that’s okay, and I don’t think it’s a hateful opinion. But I feel that’s where we are.

On the other hand, we have a part of the population who actively hates foreigners, regardless of their contribution to society, we have Reform spouting hate left and right, so it’s such a weird time to be alive really.

As an immigrant, I no longer feel safe in the UK. And simultaneously I fear I could lose friends or my job if I said oh it’s scary what’s happening in Ceuta.

Strange times.

ETA the insane level of fear I have about not expressing any opinion around gender identity/biological sex is so huge that I didn’t even dare mention it as an example in my post above, out of fear that if I implied that I believe in biological sex (such as bizarre sentence) I could lose my livelihood. It’s just bonkers.

Also, women call themselves TERFs because they are reclaiming a slur. It’s a legally protected belief as both Westminster Council and Social Work England found to their cost. A social worker is perfectly able to disbelieve in gender identity ideology, you can’t decide it would automatically make her unprofessional and unsafe to work with gender confused children. Just like being an atheist and posting about how god doesn’t exist doesn’t automatically make someone unsafe to work with Muslims, Christians or Jews.

I think your views are nearer to what most people think than either absolutist extreme.

It's not factually correct that black men are discriminated against in MH services.

It's factually correct that they are overrepresented in secure MH services but disparate outcomes don't equal discrimination.

Until we address the widespread factors that mean more black men are admitted to secure MH services, instead of saying 'well that must be discrimination' then we won't get anywhere.

But what the 'system' does is instead of saying well, there are different cultural, religious and psycho-social factors at play here, it reduces it down to 'well it must be discrimination' and aims to simply REDUCE the number of black, dangerous mentally ill men admitted to those services at point of contact so services fear being racist so are less likely to respond appropriately.

And that's why it won't work and why we end up with dangerous individuals who are a risk to the public being treated differently than their white counterparts.

All the well-intentioned phrases of public services come up again, and again in every single inquiry into horrific acts of violence on society.

Child first, adultification, not wanting to criminalise, not wanting to discriminate against global majority/asylum seekers/ND. Being trauma-informed. Not wanting to profile.

All being weaponised to stop professionals and the 'system' from acting to protect the public.

It needs to stop.

Same.
And I'm not left wing.
We have the same fears it seems- and yet none of us feel able to speak freely without being called racist/nazi/bigot and losing our jobs.
Scary times.

How about prejudices from trans ally's who believe all people who do not believe in gender identity are TERF’s and bigots?

Unjustified inequalities is discrimination. The CQC, Wessely and various other reports have provided evidence of discrimination that not just over representation.

There are disparities that are justified of course, and you’re right that these are not all being addressed. But to pretend there isn’t also discrimination is just silly.

Not those either. Was the word NOBODY unclear?

How does this come up in a work context though? A social worker is going to know if their client is trans but not necessarily their client's views on gender identity unless they bring it up. And why would they?

What if they did know, because the client or another family member in the house was known to be an outspoken women’s sex based rights activist on local social media or whatever? It’s a hypothetical- who knows why they know. It’s the principle that matters.

Put it this way. You own a company or CIC that supports immigrants. A frontline member of your team tells a right wing rally that you force her to support these immigrants. This brings your organisation into disrepute and upsets your clients who see rally footage on the TV. Funders withdraw.

You then find you can't sack the member of staff.

It seems reasonable to think that most employers would be furious.

Freedom of speech is brilliant but it does bring responsibility.

Having a private opinion about any of these issues and more, fine.

Broadcasting a controversial, discriminatory and inflammatory opinion in public when your employment is in a sector likely to be highly scrutinised by the public never mind by the service users, absolutely not fine.

Teachers (as I'm sure many many other professions also do) have standards to uphold as part of their qualification and can quite rightly be sacked should they breach these standards. This should apply to anyone - if you don't want the consequences of advertising you narrow-minded opinions don't publish them on social media!

It is exactly the same topic.

You've outed yourself, mate

What if she is just filmed at a right wing rally giving a general speech about immigration without being too provocative, and people complain to her employer that she is bringing them into disrepute even though it’s not clear from the video where she works?

I think it depends on the position and role they play in the company / society tbh. And if you think they are able to do their job properly. I have no issue overtly racist police officers or doctors being fired (and judges). I would find it more problematic if they were a tech support person.

I can see why people would support it though and honestly I have better things to do with my time than cape for bigots.