AIBU to think public racist / anti immigrant / anti trans posts can justify dismissal?

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

Read a couple of accounts this week of racist, public supporters of the far-right being sacked for spouting race / immigrant / trans hate on their personal social media accounts.

One was a doctors receptionist.
The other a school learning support assistant.

Both roles where they are likely to work with people in the groups they're publicly trashing online. One was recorded at a far-right rally, speaking about the amount of immigrants she was forced to support in her line of work.

What is your opinion on this?

YABU - People should be able to express their opinion without fear of losing their job. Freedom of speech.

YANBU - Anyone with any kind of public facing role/a role where their employer is likely disapprove of this should not publicly post this way and needs to understand that being sacked is their own fault.

Only if we let them, which perpetuating the nonsense espoused by pp is doing.

They breached their employment contracts presumably.

If someone is public facing and working for an organisation funded by the taxpayer, to express extreme views that could amount to prejudice against groups of service users would not be acceptable.

Of course you think you are, all racists think they’re brave for ‘saying it like it is’. But how about the Muslim girls and women who will know they can’t trust you? How much braver will they have to be when people like you - paid for by the rest of us by the way - make them feel less than because you think they are ‘dangerous’.

If you look at the grooming gangs in Rotherham, that’s exactly what happened. There was a culture of fear of being called racist, and people in authority at a lower level were both genuinely nervous about raising concerns relating to Pakistani men in “relationships” with vulnerable young girls, and also used it to not bother to do anything, many times because it was too much hassle, which harmed children. The only way to stop that is to openly tackle the culture of fear.

I think it should be ok for her to go to a political rally, however unpalatable, and make a speech. I don’t think she should have mentioned that she worked in a school or talked about pupils there. I think she should have been much more careful what she said and it was obvious that people would be watching those videos to try to identify people.

This.

How can it be hateful to use biological fact, and say that people can live as they chose, use what name they prefer but cannot change sex. That's not hate although some would like to tell everyone it is.

The right and left is very much used. There are good people in all parties and to just say right is racist, hateful etc when there are clear examples of people who are left leaning that are equally hateful, antisemitic, etc is too simplistic.

This.

Being called racist should not trump safeguarding children or vulnerable adults.

The Henry Novak killer used the pretence of racism to ensure the police looked at that first rather than at what was really happening he had stabbed Henry who was dying on the floor whilst the police checked the poor killer's story of racism.

Yes I think the Henry Nowak incident is a good example of this.

A political rally against there being more black and Asian children in her classroom, and portraying that as a negative? That’s not politics, and I’m glad she identified herself so the vulnerable children she is contact with can be protected from her.

Social work as a profession is captured. So many 'trans' young people. The use of pronouns on everything. Reality left social work a long time ago, to the deteriment of confused, traumatised young people who think changes from male to female or female to male (biologically impossible) will sort their problems (it won't).

I’m afraid I think that’s bollocks. There was a culture of thinking girls who were out at night, drinking and using drugs and hanging around with older men were worthless. Police themselves sexually abused girls. Then it all came out and the cops used whatever excuse their could ‘ooh, we were scared of being called racist’. Why weren’t they scared of being called racist when they watched an innocent black men die on the floor at Hull police station? Or when they fitted up a group of black men in Cardiff for a murder? Weird isn’t it, that they’re only scared when it suits them.

I feel the same way as you. Down to the last part about respecting people who peacefully practice whichever religion they choose.

The problem with fundamentalist religions is they often believe their doctrine is above the law of the land. And this creates a clash if they live in a country whose laws are not religion based. Such as extremist Muslims living within the UK. Or, another good example, FLDS members living in the US. I think the FLDS is just as problematic as Islam with its treatment of women and girls but followers of FLDS are predominantly white and western. So how could I be accused of being racist?

Surely it depends ? The ta maybe amazing and the most supportive ta to all her charges but still feel that immigration is too high ?

I'm afraid you're talking bollocks.

Complex issues aren't ever attributable to one thing.

Was there a negative attitude to victims of grooming gangs? Yes

Was there also a fear among professionals of being accused of racism? Yes

Was there also a fear that being honest about grooming gangs causing social unrest and overtime racism in the community? Yes.

When Ellie Williams was lying about being a victim of Asian grooming gangs there were public protests and Asian businesses attacked.

And it comes up again and again, in the Southport enquiry we had a teacher saying she was so concerned about his attitude and lack of remorse after violent/weapons incidents in school she was pressing the issue then another professional said 'do you really want to profile him as a black young man with a knife and felt she was being accused of racism and shut down.

With the Nottingham inquiry, staff spoke about the culture of fear of sectioning a violent black man. In reference to the 'big, black and dangerous' report accusing MH services of institutional racism.

Anyone who pretends no-one in the public sector fears accusations of racism is a bad actor or just do not know what they're talking about.

@TheGreatDownandOut @greencatwitch

I'm not fond of most religions now I agree it's an excuse to control and opress women but i do appreciate the community feel etc

This is the danger with some religions trying to ban critism we should all be free to critique all religions and call them out without fear of being called racist.

Sarah Sharif.

I’m afraid you need to read the 2015 Casey report into Rotherham Council. You are poorly informed if you think what I was referring to wasn’t an issue.

Also, I’m talking about the local authority so what you’re saying is tangential to my post, although obviously the police have many issues as well, both endemic racism and EDI institutional capture.

I don’t doubt that some people hold that belief, though I think many more are using it as a cover. What is saying is that we must not allow that belief to be used to shirk responsibility. For some reason people are very willing to accept that police held that view, I just wonder why? People are afraid to believe the worst of the police, because that leaves us in a scary position. Better to imagine them as fearful rather than complicit.

I agree things are more complex, and thus it’s also more complex than ‘a genuine fear of being called racist’. It’s really about an inability to see past someone’s skin colour or religion and view the behaviour on its own merits. Nothing in this thread has provided anything to challenge that.

Re Nottingham, that’s a massive oversimplification and I don’t see any parallel. It’s factually correct that black men are discriminated against in mental health services. Also correct that black men are disproportionately represented as carers. Way more complex than the police failing to arrest men for sexually abusing children.

I think this poster is the latter, there are lots of people who will confidently come out with this stuff because it’s the right thinking position.

No idea. The question was "should" a hypothetical person at a protest like this lose their job over it and I said yes, probably. I'm not responsible for what's actually happening.

Victoria Climbie

“In his opening speech on 26 September 2001, Garnham said that race may have played a part in the case, due to the fact that a black child was murdered by her black carers, and the social worker and police officer most closely involved in the case were black. He said that the fear of being accused of racism may have led to the inaction.[120][121] In the hearings, Arthurworrey, who is African-Caribbean, admitted that her assumptions about African–Caribbean families influenced her judgement, and that she had assumed Climbié's timidity in the presence of Kouao and Manning stemmed not from fear, but from the African–Caribbean culture of respect towards one's parents.[122]“

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Victoria_Climbié

This sounds really, really challenging to deal with.

The Casey review identified the concept, it didn’t conclude that it was a primary issue though. A bigger issue was that ethnicity wasn’t recorded, which ultimately has both hidden the truth and contributed to vastly more racism and suspicion than them actually doing their job would have done.

You’re moving the goalposts. I didn’t claim it was a “primary issue”. But thanks for acknowledging that it was an issue.