AIBU to think public racist / anti immigrant / anti trans posts can justify dismissal?

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

Read a couple of accounts this week of racist, public supporters of the far-right being sacked for spouting race / immigrant / trans hate on their personal social media accounts.

One was a doctors receptionist.
The other a school learning support assistant.

Both roles where they are likely to work with people in the groups they're publicly trashing online. One was recorded at a far-right rally, speaking about the amount of immigrants she was forced to support in her line of work.

What is your opinion on this?

YABU - People should be able to express their opinion without fear of losing their job. Freedom of speech.

YANBU - Anyone with any kind of public facing role/a role where their employer is likely disapprove of this should not publicly post this way and needs to understand that being sacked is their own fault.

Having an opinion that differs from the permitted narrative is not hate. It is opinion.

People should not be sacked for expressing a different opinion in their personal lives.

In the course of their duties, it's different and they have to parrot the company line.

Freedom of speech isn’t freedom from consequences

It depends on exactly what was said and what their role is

Both those employees will have signed a contract which details the consequences of bringing their employer's business into disrepute.
Now they are finding out what happens when you disregard your contract. Imagine coming into contact with either of them in their professional life, knowing that is how they feel about you and others like you.

Basic professionalism should guide most people. It's not difficult.

If you are a teacher or work for a gp, or for a company providing Motability vehicles or an undertakers or wherever, you don't express views publicly that your CEO wouldn't be happy to see on the front of the Daily Express.

Anti trans often equates to someone not believing a person can change sex and women only spaces. Calling for tighter control on who you let into the country isn't anti immigrint a lthough will be labelled as such. Racist is entirely different usually

Well it really depends on what's being said, doesn't it? 'Hate' is a loose term these days.

Expressing an opinion is different to
expressing hate speech.

There are laws against hate speech and bringing your employer into disrepute.

Having worked with a racist in my twenties, it can really affect the company atmosphere.

Best day was when the white managing director of the company was visited by his Asian wife and kids. Racist’s face was a picture.

I think packing the three together invalidates voting. Racism is wrong absolutely 100%. Thinking there are big issues with immigration and with transgender stuff and there are valid arguments around them; it needs to be discussed appropriately, but go ahead and have a debate that may well have people saying we need to control low-skilled migration and migration from communities that form ghettos and don't integrate. Also saying that sex is determined at birth and that if you change gender, you can't use the public bathrooms, changing rooms or prisons you might choose is not something that anyone should ever face consequences for; see the nurses' case.

just Imagine entrusting children to that vile learning assistant

She'll have broken her schools's code of conduct for sure.

I think people should behave professionally. You don’t have to spraff every personal opinion over social media. Show some dignity & common sense & keep it to yourself.

I never understand why people think everyone should be subject to their (often hate filled) views. It is the behaviour of the pub bore to broadcast your tedious prejudices to people who never asked for them.

Gross misconduct includes bringing your company into disrepute. Being publicly racist would comfortably fall under that category. Being seen to employ racists could negatively impact on your business if customers are aware of it so yes, you have the right to free speech. You can take out adverts in the newspaper if you want. Nobody will stop you. But it doesn’t mean you are free from consequences if people disagree with you.

I think it depends on their job, the impact the statement it has on that job/employer, what they post, how they post it, and their employer’s rules around social media.

This is problematic, if the views reach a legal threshold like incitement to racial hatred then maybe. If it’s one end of a spectrum of views that are mainstream then where does it stop?

If posting “ immigrants go home” gets you sacked should posting “racists should be shot” get you sacked too?

Who judges what is offensive enough to merit sacking?

Hmmm

You're throwing a lot of things under the same umbrella there.

The problem is what and how things are said.

There are many, many cases of employees being successful at Employment Tribunals when their employer has punished 'wrong think' especially on trans issues where people with legitimate GC concerns are branded as bigots.

There is a podcast 'This isn't Working' in which this is discussed quite a bit. And there have even been cases of wrongful dismissal even when the employee has been really quite unpleasant and definitely racist but where the judge has found that sacking someone is both disproportionate and also doesn't help to improve the issue.

They also discuss how cowing everyone into not speaking out on anything makes for a worse environment for us all. It should be possible for medical staff to raise concerns about unnecessary surgery on healthy minors for example, without them running the gauntlet of 'anti trans' claims.

That’s why people shove “anti trans” on the end of obviously objectionable views, to give it a legitimacy and gravitas it doesn’t really have, when it often just means thinking “trans women” are men, which most people agree with.

As Hermione said it entirely depends on the specific circumstances.

Now when are we going to see the hard left employees being sacked for their hateful SM content? Oxbridge has seen quite a few of their students knee deep in this as well.

And yes, that’s an issue too. What are your thoughts on left wing people promoting violence and being misogynistic on their personal social media? @Slightyamusedandsilly?

some of it comes under FAFO - racism for eg.

But what is anti-trans? was it a full-on "they shouldn't exist" or was it "men can't be women"?

Because boy we can share a lot of examples of this here on MN.

Heather Herbert is a great start. I suppose his job is the least of his worries.

Racism is hate.

TRA Heather Herbert for example, said he hoped Ann Widdecombe died screaming in handcuffs when he found out she had died. Should he be sacked from his job at Aberdeen University?

Both of them got precisely what they deserved.