AIBU to think public racist / anti immigrant / anti trans posts can justify dismissal?

[Slightyamusedandsilly]

Read a couple of accounts this week of racist, public supporters of the far-right being sacked for spouting race / immigrant / trans hate on their personal social media accounts.

One was a doctors receptionist.
The other a school learning support assistant.

Both roles where they are likely to work with people in the groups they're publicly trashing online. One was recorded at a far-right rally, speaking about the amount of immigrants she was forced to support in her line of work.

What is your opinion on this?

YABU - People should be able to express their opinion without fear of losing their job. Freedom of speech.

YANBU - Anyone with any kind of public facing role/a role where their employer is likely disapprove of this should not publicly post this way and needs to understand that being sacked is their own fault.

You keep saying this, but people are making salient points. It was you who mentioned 'trans hate' in the first place. You're being asked legitimate questions, maybe answer them?

Just because you start a thread, doesn’t mean you can police it. You have tag teamed 3 different suggestions for abuse, but have not clarified all with examples.

This may be a mistake on your part or you might be deliberately trying to group dissimilar actions.

An example. Some people say calling a transwoman a man is transphobic and some say it is just expressing GC views. You would have to give me very precise and full circumstances to get good response.

it could be abuse in some cases, but not others.

Yes I did wonder why OP didn't mention rape and death threats directed at women.

No. I'm not getting dragged into trans stuff. There is a board for that. If you all want to discuss it on here, go for it. But I am not.

The whole point of MN having a sex and gender board is for that.

Was it on public or private social media? Was the employer clear? These are relevant considerations. People have a certain amount of freedom of speech to be offensive. Plenty of male TRAs are blatantly misogynistic and sometimes women will respond in kind.

This is particularly nasty and there should certainly be some kind of censure for it. Contemptible man.

OP - makes a post asking about hate speech relating to trans people
Also OP - I don’t want to discuss trans stuff

As a separate but related issue , the ‘perpetrator’ who is potentially bringing the company into disrepute, has possibly been problematic for an organisation in other ways - poor work ethic, antagonistic, bullying, bit of a pervert, etc., nothing ‘extreme’ or that can’t be laughed off as a bit of ‘banter’ that warrants nothing more than a slap on the wrists and some diversity training. Most people here, particularly women, will be able to name at least one of these pricks - it’s just one micro aggression after another. Getting the sack for bringing the company into disrepute is an organisation’s way to finally get rid of them.

You put it in your title

So we’re bound to ask what you think about someone who adopted a position publicly and whether or not you think they should be sacked

YANBU and I have reported people for this in the past, freedom of expression doesn’t extend to hate speech.

Imagine it was Heather Herbert we are talking about here. He is a non passing male TRA and I imagine 99% of comments on the story on social media were along those lines. After his comments on Ann Widdecombe. Even OP is cavalier about his pronouns.

Then why is it in your thread title?

You can’t ask a question about a topic and then object when people answer on that topic. You dragged the whole thread into the topic and we responded.

Yes, this is true. My own experience of this wasn't in relation to any kind of hate speech/opinion, but the individual did create dissent in the department. I guess it goes hand in hand with not being a team player and also not being very switched on (I want to call this emotional intelligence, but I might have it wrong!).

What did they say/post?

Open to the public social media. As in, anyone could see.

Ultimately, she might have saved her job if she'd just locked her profile down. Unlike the LSA who made a public and recorded speech.

Hate speech is not the same as freedom of speech and hate speech means consequences which can include losing your job or prison

Exactly.

Define transphobia as TRAs seem to think that everything including covid is transphobic.

Define anti immigration hate as even saying that we need to deport foreign criminals is classed as racism and hate.

Nobody should be fired for legally protected speach or holding an opinion that others disagree with.

If teachers are complaining about having to try and teach children who don't speak English i can understand why and tbh I've lived in countries where they dont speak English and the rules were if you want to go to a state school you must speak the language, if you cant you have to pay for private education. Its the same for all public services learn the language or pay for your own translator.
Let's be absolutely honest we should not have to pay for translation services for people who have lived in this country for more than 6 months as they should learn English if they want to live in the UK and it takes the average person 3 months to learn a language that they hear everyday and are submerged in. If someone has lived in the UK first more than a year and still cant speak English that is a choice they have made which is part of refusing to integrate with the native British culture and they dont belong here.

@Slightyamusedandsilly why do you believe that people should only be allowed to express views that you agree with?

There is a line between free speech and hate speech, yes. Where would you draw it?

You’re the one who mentioned trans in your thread title, but yet you don’t want a discussion about it.

I recognise your username - you also post on the Sex and Gender boards quite a bit, and yet you’re trying to tell us to head on over there so you don’t have to listen to us. Weird.

Do you have links to these cases so we can understand them?

@Hoardasurass it isn't so much whether I agree with them or not really. Obviously, like anyone, I have an opinion on the matter. BUT I also have opinions about things that once would have got me sacked if I'd posted publicly about them.

The point of the thread really is to see if others think that sacking is appropriate if the publishing of personal opinions which are inconsistent with your professional responsibilities.

So not holding the opinions. Not expressing them. Rather being sacked for leaving a freely accessible public record of them. Which contradicts your work and goes against the stance of your employer.

It entirely depends on the circumstances. Sometimes it will be justified, other times not.

I don't believe people in low-level roles should have to behave as representatives of their employers in their free time. They're allowed to be individuals outside of work.

If the posts were bad enough, they'd be illegal. If not, I don't think they should lose their jobs.

"Which contradicts your work and goes against the stance of your employer."

So, nobody can go against the stance of their employer? If you work for a cigarette company, you have to be pro-smoking?