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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Lucy Letby (2)

204 replies

Oftenaddled · 30/07/2026 10:01

Not only the second thread of course, but maybe with them filling so fast it is time to start numbering them?

OP posts:
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Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 00:50

kkloo · 05/08/2026 00:18

Oh wow such a big poll, 33 yes votes.

If you were to translate those results to a 12 person jury it would be a hung jury by the way, which would mean if the convictions were quashed, a retrial was ordered and they had a hung jury more than likely the CPS wouldn't try the case again.

Show quote history

True. And it's a Netflix forum. For people who have got their information from a sensationalist Netflix documentary. (Gratuitous use of arrest footage, misleading editing of interview footage, and a story shaped by cooperation with Cheshire Constabulary). I wouldn't pay it too much attention.

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Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 00:53

kkloo · 05/08/2026 00:35

https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16027095/Letby-families-prosecutors-stand-decision-against-charges.html?ico=comment-anchor

Interesting. So despite Sandie Bohin and Cheshire Constabulary being so surprised that charges weren't approved, an independent decision maker in the CPS again rejects these charges.

OP posts:
Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 01:09

So six more families believe she harmed their babies. They must be devastated right now. That's a lot of incidents for an "innocent" nurse on top of all the rest. No surprise most of them involved displacing tubes.

I expect the Letbyists will be celebrating this. Grim.

kkloo · 05/08/2026 01:19

Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 01:09

So six more families believe she harmed their babies. They must be devastated right now. That's a lot of incidents for an "innocent" nurse on top of all the rest. No surprise most of them involved displacing tubes.

I expect the Letbyists will be celebrating this. Grim.

Well we don't actually know what they think, they may believe she did, they may believe that there's a chance and they wanted to see it go to court, or there could be a mix of feelings among the group.

3 of the families involved didn't ask for a review, they may believe that Letby did not harm their babies, or they may be unsure or they may think she did but not want to push for a trial because they don't want to go through with it.

It's impossible to know.

No surprise most of them involved displacing tubes.
I actually wondered if that part of the article was accurate and if it is it's just typical of Chesire police, probably no evidence whatsoever other than a displaced breathing tube and Letby being on duty.

I expect the Letbyists will be celebrating this. Grim.

I don't think anyone will be celebrating it, and also I don't think any who believe this may have been a MOJ believed that a review was ever going to lead to more charges anyway.

IonianNerveGrip · 05/08/2026 08:03

How awful that those families were ever given the impression there might be enough evidence to suggest a realistic chance of conviction, after everything else they've been through. Not just the six who wanted it, but the others too- we won't be airbrushing their experiences away either. I really hope that tantrum statement Cheshire Police issued at the time of the initial decision didn't cause any pain.

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 09:41

One of the things I always find troubling about the police investigation is the collateral damage they caused with their decision to go with a dramatic early hours arrest of Lucy Letby and highly visible search of her house and garden.

She had contacted them during the investigation, asking to come in and give information like her colleagues. There was arguably no reason to arrest her at home. The surprise element wasn't needed to avoid a flight risk. She'd known about the investigation for months.

Yet the police chose a dawn arrest followed by highly visible searches, meaning that to make sure that parents heard from them before the press, they also woke the parents with dawn phone calls to say someone had been arrested for murdering their child.

It was great for the press exposure and later Netflix footage. But I don't see how these shock tactics were putting the parents first.

OP posts:
LuisCarol · 05/08/2026 10:06

True, but if they hadn't done that, how would the magicians and bullshitters have been able to tell from her demeanour whether she was guilty or not?

Thankfully, someone was thinking of the magicians and bullshitters!

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 10:30

LuisCarol · 05/08/2026 10:06

True, but if they hadn't done that, how would the magicians and bullshitters have been able to tell from her demeanour whether she was guilty or not?

Thankfully, someone was thinking of the magicians and bullshitters!

They knew they were going to need them ...

OP posts:
PinkTonic · 05/08/2026 10:35

Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 09:41

One of the things I always find troubling about the police investigation is the collateral damage they caused with their decision to go with a dramatic early hours arrest of Lucy Letby and highly visible search of her house and garden.

She had contacted them during the investigation, asking to come in and give information like her colleagues. There was arguably no reason to arrest her at home. The surprise element wasn't needed to avoid a flight risk. She'd known about the investigation for months.

Yet the police chose a dawn arrest followed by highly visible searches, meaning that to make sure that parents heard from them before the press, they also woke the parents with dawn phone calls to say someone had been arrested for murdering their child.

It was great for the press exposure and later Netflix footage. But I don't see how these shock tactics were putting the parents first.

It was great for the press exposure and later Netflix footage

It’s odd isn’t it, that they went for such high profile, high drama even at this stage, rather than a considered professional approach in line with their own protocols. Like they were champing at the bit for this massive opportunity and couldn’t wait to be surrounded by huge publicity. And yes, the impact on the parents. It’s like they thought they were already in a Netflix crime drama.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 05/08/2026 10:49

PinkTonic · 05/08/2026 10:35

It was great for the press exposure and later Netflix footage

It’s odd isn’t it, that they went for such high profile, high drama even at this stage, rather than a considered professional approach in line with their own protocols. Like they were champing at the bit for this massive opportunity and couldn’t wait to be surrounded by huge publicity. And yes, the impact on the parents. It’s like they thought they were already in a Netflix crime drama.

Show quote history

That's a really interesting indictment of the world we live in. It seems even our institutions are succumbing to the lure of sensationalism, clout, ratings and rage bait. Hang the psychological damage that occurs to those caught in its wake.

We have a new obsession with "resilience" and toxic positivity. When one questions the dropping of standards we receive DARVO. Any attempt at nuance is regarded as weakness or personal failure unless it corresponds with a trending hashtag of the most superficial kind.

We seem to be descending into chaos at a most alarming rate.

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 10:57

PinkTonic · 05/08/2026 10:35

It was great for the press exposure and later Netflix footage

It’s odd isn’t it, that they went for such high profile, high drama even at this stage, rather than a considered professional approach in line with their own protocols. Like they were champing at the bit for this massive opportunity and couldn’t wait to be surrounded by huge publicity. And yes, the impact on the parents. It’s like they thought they were already in a Netflix crime drama.

Show quote history

They really seem to have stoked the drama

Child D's mother described to Thirlwall being woken before six in the morning, and then left hanging (page 2):

"Richard, the detective, called us, and I was with my husband. That woke us up, and we -- he just said, "I'm letting you know, this is the Police, Cheshire Police, I'm letting you know that we're about to arrest a person that has allegedly murdered your daughter and other babies. I can't go into it too much now. I know it's very abrupt, but we will call you back". And this left us in shock because we'd just never expected something of that nature".

I feel very sorry for all the parents who have been brought in contact with the police investigation

OP posts:
rubbishatballet · 05/08/2026 12:27

Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 10:57

They really seem to have stoked the drama

Child D's mother described to Thirlwall being woken before six in the morning, and then left hanging (page 2):

"Richard, the detective, called us, and I was with my husband. That woke us up, and we -- he just said, "I'm letting you know, this is the Police, Cheshire Police, I'm letting you know that we're about to arrest a person that has allegedly murdered your daughter and other babies. I can't go into it too much now. I know it's very abrupt, but we will call you back". And this left us in shock because we'd just never expected something of that nature".

I feel very sorry for all the parents who have been brought in contact with the police investigation

Edited
Show quote history

That says she was called at 6 (not before 6). And I can’t really see how that’s any worse than the police calling when the mother was at work for example, and not as likely to be with her husband? Whenever you get that call it’s going to be awful.

Similarly with an early morning arrest (note not ‘early hours’), I think this is fairly standard practice for serious crimes. The suspect is most likely to be at home, and it allows for interviews to be conducted during the daytime. With a huge investigation like that, an arrest will be incredibly well planned and they will want to mitigate as far as possible for any variables like whether the suspect is actually going to be there or not.

Would some posters have preferred that
Letby was arrested at 9am just as all her neighbours were up and about, going to work etc? Or should the police have just rung her and said ‘would you be so kind as to pop into the police station whenever you have a minute, we’d like to arrest you for multiple murders and attempted murders’?

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 12:40

rubbishatballet · 05/08/2026 12:27

That says she was called at 6 (not before 6). And I can’t really see how that’s any worse than the police calling when the mother was at work for example, and not as likely to be with her husband? Whenever you get that call it’s going to be awful.

Similarly with an early morning arrest (note not ‘early hours’), I think this is fairly standard practice for serious crimes. The suspect is most likely to be at home, and it allows for interviews to be conducted during the daytime. With a huge investigation like that, an arrest will be incredibly well planned and they will want to mitigate as far as possible for any variables like whether the suspect is actually going to be there or not.

Would some posters have preferred that
Letby was arrested at 9am just as all her neighbours were up and about, going to work etc? Or should the police have just rung her and said ‘would you be so kind as to pop into the police station whenever you have a minute, we’d like to arrest you for multiple murders and attempted murders’?

Show quote history

I am happy to concede that the time is approximate and may have been at 6 or before 6. The arrest is listed as at 6 elsewhere which is why I thought the conversation indicated before, but I missed the mother's direct reference to a time. Thanks for the correction. The point is that it was very early in the morning and woke people up.

Given that Lucy Letby had asked when she could attend, and had been aware of the investigation for months, yes, arresting her at the station was a possibility. Another - if the parents had to be called in this way - was arresting her later in the day, yes. Waking people with traumatic news is particularly damaging because this sudden awakening also causes a cortisol surge. Leaving them hanging without further support is also sub-optimal, and support systems, formal and otherwise, are harder to access at these times. Yes, it does seem to me that it would have been better to find ways to avoid the drama of a dawn wake-up call here.

(ETA not sure what distinction you are making between "early hours" and early morning. To me they mean the same. But all my comments apply to waking people at 6am, whatever we want to call that)

OP posts:
Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 19:50

Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 09:41

One of the things I always find troubling about the police investigation is the collateral damage they caused with their decision to go with a dramatic early hours arrest of Lucy Letby and highly visible search of her house and garden.

She had contacted them during the investigation, asking to come in and give information like her colleagues. There was arguably no reason to arrest her at home. The surprise element wasn't needed to avoid a flight risk. She'd known about the investigation for months.

Yet the police chose a dawn arrest followed by highly visible searches, meaning that to make sure that parents heard from them before the press, they also woke the parents with dawn phone calls to say someone had been arrested for murdering their child.

It was great for the press exposure and later Netflix footage. But I don't see how these shock tactics were putting the parents first.

One of the things I always find troubling about the police investigation is the collateral damage they caused with their decision to go with a dramatic early hours arrest of Lucy Letby and highly visible search of her house and garden.

That happens to people everyday. And some of them will be innocent (unlike in this case) I don't see why a serial baby murderer should get special privileges. This entire case is about people complaining she didn't get preferential treatment. They probably called the families at the same time to warn them before they found out some other way.

She had contacted them during the investigation, asking to come in and give information like her colleagues. There was arguably no reason to arrest her at home. The surprise element wasn't needed to avoid a flight risk. She'd known about the investigation for months.

Yeah lets give her plenty of time to rehearse answers and get rid of all her handover sheets and post it notes. They searched her house after arrest. You probably think she should've been given advance warning of that too 🙄

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 20:00

Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 19:50

One of the things I always find troubling about the police investigation is the collateral damage they caused with their decision to go with a dramatic early hours arrest of Lucy Letby and highly visible search of her house and garden.

That happens to people everyday. And some of them will be innocent (unlike in this case) I don't see why a serial baby murderer should get special privileges. This entire case is about people complaining she didn't get preferential treatment. They probably called the families at the same time to warn them before they found out some other way.

She had contacted them during the investigation, asking to come in and give information like her colleagues. There was arguably no reason to arrest her at home. The surprise element wasn't needed to avoid a flight risk. She'd known about the investigation for months.

Yeah lets give her plenty of time to rehearse answers and get rid of all her handover sheets and post it notes. They searched her house after arrest. You probably think she should've been given advance warning of that too 🙄

Show quote history

In this case, I'm talking about collateral damage to the parents, woken to be told someone was about to be arrested on suspicion murdering their children at 6 in the morning.

OP posts:
kkloo · 05/08/2026 20:14

Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 20:00

In this case, I'm talking about collateral damage to the parents, woken to be told someone was about to be arrested on suspicion murdering their children at 6 in the morning.

Edited
Show quote history

Had the parents been aware at this point that the police were looking into someone causing intentional harm? Or did they just think the police were investigating the hospital generally, probably for malpractice?

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 05/08/2026 20:26

kkloo · 05/08/2026 20:14

Had the parents been aware at this point that the police were looking into someone causing intentional harm? Or did they just think the police were investigating the hospital generally, probably for malpractice?

Show quote history

In May 2017 most of the parents were contacted and told there was a police investigation into the hospital, but they don't seem to have heard anything about deliberate harm or murder until the day of the arrests the next year

OP posts:
PinkTonic · 05/08/2026 21:01

Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 19:50

One of the things I always find troubling about the police investigation is the collateral damage they caused with their decision to go with a dramatic early hours arrest of Lucy Letby and highly visible search of her house and garden.

That happens to people everyday. And some of them will be innocent (unlike in this case) I don't see why a serial baby murderer should get special privileges. This entire case is about people complaining she didn't get preferential treatment. They probably called the families at the same time to warn them before they found out some other way.

She had contacted them during the investigation, asking to come in and give information like her colleagues. There was arguably no reason to arrest her at home. The surprise element wasn't needed to avoid a flight risk. She'd known about the investigation for months.

Yeah lets give her plenty of time to rehearse answers and get rid of all her handover sheets and post it notes. They searched her house after arrest. You probably think she should've been given advance warning of that too 🙄

Show quote history

Yeah lets give her plenty of time to rehearse answers and get rid of all her handover sheets and post it notes

She knew about the investigation and asked to come in to be interviewed. She had plenty of time to get rid of anything if she wanted to. Stop making things up.

Iamateadrinker · 05/08/2026 21:01

I am interested in the views of the " definitely guilty" people, those who have no doubt.
What do you think is the motivation behind people who think she isn't guilty/ didn't receive a fair trial or those who have changed their mind from guilty to innocent since hearing about the police investigation/ Dr Lee's views etc.
Why do you think people who are not directly involved/ do not know either the parents or the accused would take the view she is innocent?
What are we missing,?

Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 22:22

PinkTonic · 05/08/2026 21:01

Yeah lets give her plenty of time to rehearse answers and get rid of all her handover sheets and post it notes

She knew about the investigation and asked to come in to be interviewed. She had plenty of time to get rid of anything if she wanted to. Stop making things up.

Show quote history

Making things up? Why did she want a leisurely chat down the police station if she knew she was under investigation then? Big difference between knowing you're under investigation and knowing the police are right out side your door about to raid your house.

kkloo · 05/08/2026 22:29

Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 22:22

Making things up? Why did she want a leisurely chat down the police station if she knew she was under investigation then? Big difference between knowing you're under investigation and knowing the police are right out side your door about to raid your house.

Show quote history

Big difference between knowing you're under investigation and knowing the police are right out side your door about to raid your house.

Definitely not a big difference, it's a fairly tiny difference if you knew you had stuff that you would want to get rid of.

PinkTonic · 05/08/2026 22:31

Firefly1987 · 05/08/2026 22:22

Making things up? Why did she want a leisurely chat down the police station if she knew she was under investigation then? Big difference between knowing you're under investigation and knowing the police are right out side your door about to raid your house.

Show quote history

Your comment is completely illogical. Why don’t you answer @Iamateadrinker instead of making up ridiculous straw men to argue?

Iamateadrinker · 05/08/2026 22:32

Yes..the silence is telling...

Justiceposter · 05/08/2026 22:37

When there is an enquiry to investigate this miscarriage of justice , as I am sure there will have to be. I am wondering how the Cheshire Police and CPS will be able to justify their conduct.They have to keep doubling down and insisting they made the right calls. If they don’t it means they have to admit they put the affected families through years of unnecessary stress and trauma because they botched the investigation into deaths of these children.