Lucy Letby (2)

[Oftenaddled]

Not only the second thread of course, but maybe with them filling so fast it is time to start numbering them?

I think these sorts of conversations were recorded in the babies’ notes, the defence just don’t have the actual maternity notes.

Only a couple of paragraphs' worth of information from the maternity files, Dr Evans said. As an example of a major issue missed, Lee's panel noted that the fact that Baby A's mother had cholestasis, which has major implications for perinatal health, wasn't recorded in the clinical notes. Asking mothers to describe their pregnancies and labours is all well and good, but the information isn't a substitute for reading the obstetrics notes, wherever it is recorded.

Then the comment of ‘he’s not leaving here alive, is he?’

As a teen, I was on a hike led by an adult where one girl fell behind. At the end, she said: "You're not taking me with you next time, are you?" She was obviously hoping to be contradicted and reassured. Letby's comment looks similar to me.

I would have thought information about the birth of the triplets may be pertinent. I think from what I have read that we know that it was a very quick C section - the babies were born a minute apart - which suggests some haste.

More information would shed some light on the likelihood of the sub-capsular haematoma suffered by one of the babies having been caused during birth.

if Dewi Evans needed the birth notes to rule out natural causes people would say "it must not be obvious it's murder

Birth notes are either needed or not, medically speaking, to rule out natural causes; "what people would say" should not be a factor in determining that.

He could obviously see perfectly well it's murder without looking at the birth notes

How could he see this perfectly well? The pathologist who carried out the post mortems couldn’t see it and he actually examined the infants, rather than just looking at the notes. Evans quite clearly looked at the notes from the point of view of looking for harm rather than ruling out natural causes which is what he was supposed to be doing. Instead he knew they were accusing a nurse of harm and made up ways it could possibly have been done (if you ignore all the actual medical evidence about the clinical reality of the babies and the prior care then squint with one eye while the other is shut).

Because I believe all the evidence presented in court from all the experts. And I can see from her own behaviour that she did it.

Can only guess that people still saying guilty have to wait for orders/advice from the main tv news channels....it is better to use youtube you get some balance on there.

It just feels as though it wont be long now they cannot ignore it they have to let her go home and join her family before Christmas. I hope and pray Lucy can deal with it and the attention which obviously will not always be positive.

She cannot work but could make a lot of money doing interviews and writing a book.

@ByAzureMentor just because most of the public have lost their minds when it comes to this woman doesn't mean she'll be swanning out the prison doors before Christmas. Is this even a serious post? I can't tell these days.

@Firefly1987
Because I believe all the evidence presented in court from all the experts. And I can see from her own behaviour that she did it.

Except that no actual “evidence” that LL committed the “murders” she was accused of was presented in court, was there? Speculation and pseudo psychology maybe, not to mention flawed and selective presentation of the statistical evidence.

And you cannot, cannot see from “her own behaviour” that she did it. Nobody ever could. What utter tosh!

Yeah the country is losing their mind and you and Dewi are the only sensible ones left. I was going to add Moritz but she is not doing these important debates anymore.

I guess you have 100s maybe even thousands of messages explaining how she done it and how she is such a bad person so are struggling to deal with the fact it was a complete waste of time and energy. You were fooled, everyone was, none of it is true.

The case is lying in the gutter it has been destroyed ripped apart.

Laugh at the idea of her getting out it is only my guess that it will be soon right enough but i bet when it happens you give up posting. Covering it up is now pointless that is why i believe she will be out do not ask me what happens with the horrendous police investigation or the hopeless doctors that had other problems they wanted to disappear but id guess Dewi will say he is too old now. There will be some amount of public anger i am know that.

You could maybe ask yourself why these experts from all over were so desperate to help her and risk their reputation if she is in any way dangerous, why someone in jail for the most horrific crimes has more public support than some of the biggest football clubs in England ? why the journos that were excited by this subject have decided it is no longer important ? why there is no one out there to back up Evans(you can count yourself no one else will). why everything about her behaviour suggests innocent ? why she is still in tears saying over and over i never done this and people in jail with her believe she is not evil or cruel at all ? why her friends and family have been so loyal and never doubted her ?

We can co over and over everything but it is done, it is over, it is finished, it was pretty clear right at the start, no evidence, no previous, no motive. Just a badly run hospital.

Except that no actual “evidence” that LL committed the “murders” she was accused of was presented in court, was there? Speculation and pseudo psychology maybe, not to mention flawed and selective presentation of the statistical evidence.

Yeah sure, that's why she was found guilty, because there was "no evidence"

At this stage, everyone knows that the “evidence” is bunkum.

@FreezeThePicture yeah it was only tested to the highest standard in a court of law. But lets ignore that. Clearly experts don't even need to be cross-examined, we could get rid of the court system entirely.

The highest standard for the 1800s maybe.

Unfortunately the problem was that the evidence wasn’t tested to “ the highest standard in a court of law” The evidence given by prosecution witnesses has been proven to be unreliable at best. Anyone who has read transcripts from the direct and cross examination of witnesses, can reasonably say that evidence was not tested to the highest standard.

Better than not tested to ANY standard. Or to be kind-tested to the standard of convincing the gullible public via sensationalist press conference.

Maybe we could switch to a model where they're cross examined by a panel of perjuring, arse covering consultants.

Except they've put their reports forward to be tested with the CCRC haven't they? And will also be happy to have it tested in court if necessary, And they have also released some of it to the public where other experts are free to test it.
Some of the work related to the case has also been submitted to a scientific journal and peer reviewed.

What more do you expect them to do? Set up their own mock court case? Force other experts to debate with them? There sure is a long line of people willing to support Dewi isn't there?

Ah but the legion of Dewi supporters are just decorously keeping their powder dry in a dignified manner for the big showdown according to those who "really know" the case and believe all you need to convict is enough salacious circumstantial evidence strategically reported by the media.....

When he has done all that THEN it might be appropriate to talk about it being a huge MOJ. Until then you're believing untested theories to support a convicted serial killer. Not a great look is it?

Pleasantly surprised by this poll so far-https://www.reddit.com/r/netflix/comments/1vez512/poll_the_investigation_of_lucy_letby_did_she_do_it/

Most people still think she's guilty.

I don't care how you think it looks. I genuinely don't.

How do you think you look exactly when you completely deny that there's any issues with the case and make out that Shoo Lee and the panel are grifters and conspiracy theorists?

That's not a good look for you, but you presumably also don't care.

I also very much disagree with your opinion about when it might be appropriate to talk about it, people have often talked about cases being MOJ before they are eventually ruled to be one. You don't have to like it, but you certainly don't get to control when people talk about it, surely you should be aware of that now, you've tried to shut us all up with insults for the past 2 years and it hasn't worked on a single one of us.

Oh wow such a big poll, 33 yes votes.

If you were to translate those results to a 12 person jury it would be a hung jury by the way, which would mean if the convictions were quashed, a retrial was ordered and they had a hung jury more than likely the CPS wouldn't try the case again.

Nurses get scapegoated - remember Bawa Garba, who actually stopped resuscitation of a child - and cleared of any misconduct and who remembers that poor nurse who was struck off at the same time - Isabel Amaro.