To ask about language around skin colour at nursery

[gollyimholly]

Hello,

Posting here for traffic mostly. Does anyone know how skin tones/colour/race is introduced at nursery age?

We are Asian Indian and I come from a culture where the beauty standard is that more tanned skin is not as beautiful as less tanned. I've been very careful with language and how my 3 year old DD is exposed to it. Eg. My sister grew up thinking she wasn't very pretty because people would so flippantly comment on skin colour etc and she was more tanned than what the average idea of pretty was.

Anyway, DD this morning said a teacher at nursery said her "skin is dark" and her brother's skin is "bright". I was just wondering is this something that is taught at nursery? I am trying to understand what context this was said in and whether they may have been learning about different cultures. But at the same time asking DD without drawing too much attention to it isn't easy.

Also WIBU to ask nursery what context this was mentioned under? Eg. Are they learning about the world or was it a random (but seems a bit out of place) comment by a teacher.

TIA x

Children will absorb the culture around race and skin tone irrespective of what you say to them. You have very little control over that.

So you have two children - DD and her brother? And they are both at the same nursery?

I wouldn't trust that the exact words were said like that verbatim. She's only three.

I'm not aware of any childcare setting that teaches children lighter or darker skin are superior. It's a shame you grew up with that racist standard around you.

If someone isn't white or is very tan, I suppose one might call their skin 'dark' but I would hope not as an insult or to be derogatory. As obviously some skin is darker than others and there's nothing wrong with that.

I've no recollection of ever speaking about the colour of the other children or teachers' skin while at school though.

No, just DD is in nursery. DS is 5 months old, I don't think the teacher will remember him well enough from drop offs etc to have also commented on him. It sounds like the teacher used these words to describe various skin tones maybe? I can't imagine DD coining them herself.

I think it's important you raise her knowing that any skin colour is beautiful. Maybe I'm naive but she won't see it a s bad thing if someone says her skin is dark unless she's raised to think otherwise.
I know what you're taking about as my friend's daughter was told her skin was 'too dark' (by family) so she was understandably upset.

If you have any concerns about what is happening at the nursery, then enquire about them, there is nothing wrong with doing so, while bearing in mind such young children may not be the most reliable in what they recall.

Yes, if the comment was left at simply "dark" as an adjective, I have absolutely no problem with that as it is factual. And as far as I know, DD believes all skin is beautiful/ordinary/not attributing anything more to the character based on skin tone (exemplified by various cartoon and book characters etc)

I would ask the nursery. It's completely fine to ask whether they are using a specific framework to talk about skin colour. They will want to be positive and inclusive of all children, and not to present one colour as "better" than another.

I would speak to the member of staff to ask what wording was used.

as someone not from the same culture, she may not understand the connotations of the words used. And maybe just used dark and light as they’re probably talking about differences in the same colour. For example, Light blue/dark blue and she thought it a good way to get that in.

I don't want to sound confrontational, nor do I want to get the teacher in trouble. Should I just phone and ask to speak to her?

This is a day nursery but DD is in the Pre-school class and so the teacher isn't exactly a teacher, she also sits in reception. If I phone, it's most likely she will pick up.

As a tiny, my DD was the only white child in her school class for a while (ages 6-8ish). She referred to her friends’ skin colours, when she referred to them at all, as “golden” or “brown” and they tended to refer to hers as “pink”. We left them all to it. It worked for them!

edit to say “in her school class”

OP I don’t think you’re being unreasonable to find their language a bit thoughtless and to suggest some training/development in inclusion/ DEI. The basics of not commenting on others’ physical appearance seems to be lacking!

Both my children became very aware of skin colour / differences in appearance around 3 years old and would innocently make factual but potentially offensive comments describing people by their skin or hair colour.
"Bright" isn't a word I'd associate with skin tone so I'd guess she's noticed differences and is trying to articulate them?
Appreciate I've got a different perspective being white, but we spent time listing all the different colours cats and dogs could be, but how they were still the same animal underneath the different colours. Have you spoken to nursery? I mentioned it to staff as I didn't want other children to be upset by comments and they had some age appropriate books that they read at story time.

Dark is not a very nice description. Tanned skin would be better.
I know when DD was little she used to use, peach, brown, or black.
I would be having a word with the teacher.

Are you teaching her that dark skin is less pretty so you don't want her skin called dark? I'm not sure you can expect the nursery to condone discrimination about skin colour just because it's part of your culture! If she was called dark, it would not have been an insult and nor should she be taught it is one. In this country, we teach that beauty is not dependent on how light or dark someone's skin is, and if you are expecting the nursery to ignore that and instead respect that you want to teach your daughter to be a racist, you are being extremely unreasonable. Just teach her that all skin tones are beautiful, and how lucky she is that she's not being raised in a culture which thinks otherwise.

If only she’d had the same consideration with her words.
I would send an email if that’s an option.
If not, pull up your big girl pants and call her. You are not wrong.
I hope DD is okay.

Why is “dark” not nice? It’s direct and factual.
You don’t say that black skin is tanned!

My DD (white) noticed skin colour difference in Reception (4-5yrs) and asked why her friend had brown skin and that it wasn’t fair because my DD wanted brown skin. My DD referred to her own skin as peach and absolutely would not accept that she was “white” 😅

I don’t think I’d be happy with the term “dark” in this context as it’s almost coming across as a negative.
I wonder if they were doing the classic “about me/my family” in class and how family members can look similar but different at the same time?
You could always use it as a way to show your DD that all skin colour is different, even her and her own brother have different skin colour, how beautiful that is etc. Maybe also show how different eye colour is, hair colour etc. so it takes away the emphasis on skin colour itself.
I took a close up picture of mine and DD’s eyes and she was fascinated by the markings on our eyes.

Also, AIBU in having a problem with the word "bright" as an opposite to "dark"? Because I feel like dark skin can also be bright and glowy etc. and so not an accurate opposite word of "dark".

No black skin is black.
Brown skin is brown.
White skin is peach.
My nieces husband is from Malawi it is not a compliment to be described as dark, darker than your siblings and extended family. Maybe teacher need to be educated better.
This wasn’t the type of racism that white people created between POC but it is a form racism.

You’re definitely not being unreasonable.
Nyakim Gatwech (model) has beautifully glowy skin!
The teacher needs speaking to and a bit of training on the terminology she uses.

I’ve never described white skin as peach.

I think ring up for a chat. I had no idea that saying ‘dark’ as an adjective was wrong and that saying ‘tanned’ was better. I thought tanned meant you’ve been in the sun a lot.

Is there a website you could direct them to to help?

Me saying someone has dark skin is racist? Is that not just describing someone's appearance, with no reference to their race?

I'm not using it as a label.

I have never heard someone saying someone with pale skin is peach.

It does sound odd, but you really need to just open up the conversation at this stage.

I don’t think I’d be happy with the term “dark” in this context as it’s almost coming across as a negative.

The nursery teacher said "skin is dark". How is that coming across as negative?