To ask about language around skin colour at nursery

[gollyimholly]

Hello,

Posting here for traffic mostly. Does anyone know how skin tones/colour/race is introduced at nursery age?

We are Asian Indian and I come from a culture where the beauty standard is that more tanned skin is not as beautiful as less tanned. I've been very careful with language and how my 3 year old DD is exposed to it. Eg. My sister grew up thinking she wasn't very pretty because people would so flippantly comment on skin colour etc and she was more tanned than what the average idea of pretty was.

Anyway, DD this morning said a teacher at nursery said her "skin is dark" and her brother's skin is "bright". I was just wondering is this something that is taught at nursery? I am trying to understand what context this was said in and whether they may have been learning about different cultures. But at the same time asking DD without drawing too much attention to it isn't easy.

Also WIBU to ask nursery what context this was mentioned under? Eg. Are they learning about the world or was it a random (but seems a bit out of place) comment by a teacher.

TIA x

'BRIGHT' is a problem

DS would have considered all of you brown, no shade details, and himself pink at that age! I'd say atleast quarter of his just finished year R class are SE Asian, the white kids are English and assorted European, there are a few black children both African and British and one East Asian child. His dad and I are both "white other" so he understands people come from different places.

He can tell me all the other languages the kids speak at home (there's a lot, and we speak one as well) including for one of his friends the specific Indian regional language and the town where the kid's parents come from.

My point is from nursery to year R is a massive leap. The schools celebrate diversity and every holiday. I would not worry about clumsy attempts to explain different skin colour.

I'd suggest you do it in writing so she's got time to gather her thoughts and make sure she recalls correctly. Agree with other posters she might be embarrassed to offend. But I would try to take it in good faith. Skin colour is very factual at that age and a lot of kids are just learning their colours in general.

My son is white and when he was at nursery he described his skin as ‘daytime’, I was like wtf are you on about?? But later worked out that he was comparing it to his friends skin- dark. Nighttime (dark) vs daytime. I don’t think this came from the staff at all, just the way toddlers try to make sense of the world. We are always asking toddlers ‘what colour is the bus?’ Etc so only natural they will think that colour is a descriptor to be used.

As long as discussions re skin colour are factual and emphasis is given that all are equally good/pretty/handsome/same status then it doesn’t matter. Darker skin is just as beautiful as paler skin, and under our skin we are all the same! Descriptive language about a person can include skin tone as long as it’s not negative.

(being white British we like to get darker courtesy of the sun or pay for spray tanning!)

context is everything, and children don’t always relay stories correctly

beauty standard is that more tanned skin is not as beautiful as less tanned

I think you should maybe think about how your beliefs are relevant, accurate or even helpful. Nursery commented on skin, big deal, you are the one labelling skin with attractiveness. Sort yourself out.

There are degrees within that though. My partner is Egyptian and describes their skin as olive. I'm white and my skin definitely isn't a peach colour, I'm very very pale.

Who cares? Why are you all thinking so deeply about this. Looks like you all have the issue not the nursery.

My toddler slapped my yesterday after nursery. I told her why thats a big no. I didnt start cooking up nursery is teaching them violence ffs

What does it matter whether "dark" is insulting in Malawi (or South Asia for that matter)? It's not in the UK. It's not the n word for god's sake. It's a statement of objective fact that some people have dark skin and others light. There's nothing rude about "white" instead of "peach" either.

It’s an odd comment to me that any staff would talks about skin colour - so maybe just an innocent observation by a member of staff who had no idea you’d give it much thought?

I'm conscious of it in the sense that I know for a fact that's how other people think. It's how people spoke to me in both childhood and adulthood. I do not think the staff member meant it in a negative way consciously either. I am just not wanting DD to be exposed to it with the attractiveness label at an age where she is only just beginning to form ideas about her place in the world.

I may have an issue, and I can accept that. But on surface level, I don't think I do. If I explored that further I might say I'm mindful of it because of how I, or other girls in my family, were made to feel growing up. I think it's a pretty normal thing, when you have a child of your own, to do some introspection based on your own childhood and have ideas about what you like to do the same/differently etc.

It’s tricky! Kids ask loads of questions as they notice everything that makes us all different. Obviously there is no bad intent. I would phone (totally get the “brave” point) and just say you’d noticed it. It will be brushed off, but better words might be used down the line.

Dark is quite a normal, neutral description for skin. It's like describing hair as dark or light or red etc.
Bright is an interesting term because I wouldn't put that as a "standard" English word. I first heard that word being used to describe lighter skin as an adult and it was someone from a West African country. It's definitely more a word I associate with English speakers from a Carribbean or African (possible also South Asian) background. If it was a white British person using it it's an unusual choice of word and I might find that a bit jarring. In itself it should be neutral too but I would feel a bit wary of it being contrasted with the word dark for someone else. I might be biased because the person who I first heard using that word in relation to skin did have a bit of a complex themselves. So to me it feels less neutral for that reason but that might just be me.

I wouldn't go in all guns blazing or anything. But it wouldn't hurt to keep an eye open and I don't think you are being crazy for being a bit surprised at the language. It shouldn't be enough to give a child a complex on itself but I would want to check there wasn't something else going on with the person using it that might be at risk of being passed on (I don't mean necessarily that they are an evil racist. It could easily be an unexamined complex they picked up and never questioned).

That’s a good point because in that context, of course, the tall dark and handsome man would be white with dark hair and brown eyes. Talking about dark skin or fair skin is a fairly common conversation about children, especially babies. I’ve never heard anyone describe skin as bright.
In any context though no one should ever be talking about skin colour in a negative way to preschool children. It may be acceptable in some cultures to value light skin over dark skin but it certainly isn’t acceptable in ours.

I had only realised about 5 years ago that there was a type of racism where if you were black or had browner skin there was almost a hierarchy depending on shade/darkness from certain people or cultures.

I may have been ignorant, I do have black friends, arab friends and Pakistani friends - but theyd never mentioned it. It was only at a friend of a friends wedding I overheard some relatives talking about the bride being darker skinned than the groom and it being problematic and my friend explained this "issue".

I could be wrong but im not sure outside the impacted cultures everyone knows this comparison is made. I would hope the teacher would have said this unaware too. But if you are concerned, talk to the teacher i am sure she wants your children to be happy and secure and not negatively impacted by a language choice like that.

I hope your children are ok

Absolutely this, OP.
You need to address the issue that some people in your family put different values on different skin colours. Make sure your children know and understand that no matter what colour your skin/hair/eyes are, you are a beautiful, important, much-valued human being.

What?

What associations are you using with 'dark'?

Dark is a great description. Dark skin is beautiful.