Friend never free to meet up but somehow annoyed with me that we never do

[CurdinHenry]

She and her husband are professionals doing the same job but she's expected to do all the childcare (I mean all) and it's been like that since the first was born eleven years ago, youngest is nine. He's a prick and I think she should leave him but not my place to say and we don't quite have that sort of friendship - I think she'd find it very rude if I suggested it, actually.

I've tried very hard over the years to keep in touch and be as flexible as possible (any time, any place, happy to come to hers for a coffee in the garden if she can't get out, happy for her to come to mine with the kids if she needs to). But she almost never firms up a plan and on the rare occasions she does she will arrive and immediately say she has to go in 45 minutes because of some bullshit thing her husband supposedly needs to do then she spends the entire time looking at her watch.

You're probably thinking there's an abusive dynamic because I know that's how her behaviour seems written down but I actually don't think there is(aside from the arguably abusive refusal to let her have a life but I'm not sure she's ever said no to him and I think she thinks this is normal?).

Anyway, all of this is shit and depressing but what's really annoying me is that she seems increasingly to blame me for us rarely meeting! She'll say oh we hardly meet up oh I hear you were seeing so and so as though I'm cutting her out somehow and her isolation is down to me. It's really pissing me off a lot at this point. I will say to her I can meet any time unless I'm literally at work or away on holiday and I'll move other stuff around but she never gets around to it then she will quite venomously complain that I don't make effort to see her.

Aibu to just stop trying at all? (She's also one of those people who brags about wealthy a lot which I could kind of do without anyway)

Why don't you tell her what you've said here?

Couldn't be arsed with that. I'd be keeping my distance.
Have you actually said, hang on, it's YOU who can never make it, why are you having a go at me????

“Susan its you who can only meet for 45 minutes before having to dash home, its you who doesn’t want to meet up. i’ve tried with you but I am not going to force you.”

Wide berth for this one. She's not a good friend.

This is the sort of thing you might write. If you offer her proper dates and an arrangement (which may not suit her) at least it gives her an opportunity to lead on dates she can do.

IF nothing comes of it, at least you’ve tried and frankly, I’d drop the rope,

”Hi Susan, let’s get together soon as I’ve not seen you for ages. I’m free for a coffee on (insert dates) or we could chat over a cuppa one afternoon on (insert dates).
If these dates don’t work for you, let me know a couple of dates you are free and I’ll move my diary around. Looking fwd to seeing you soon I hope.”

Oh I have tried both specific dates to save her the mental labour and totally open dates and neither lands.

Sometimes you need to get a bit blunt.

Next time she comments why don't you be honest? "Hang on Laura, I've given you plenty of options to get together and been extremely flexible. Yet it's you that either can't make it or can't commit to a proper get together, so don't lay the blame at my door!"

I can see your point but I just don't think blunt is going to work. There are so many situations where I think "if we could just be relaxed about this then everything would be fine" but it's an impossible if.

I have family members who behave very much like this - while there is more context which I haven't mentioned as it's potentially identifying to anyone who knows the situation, other relatives have recently fallen out with them over it (justifiably). They also fart about not confirming specific dates or responding to open dates, and if anything is arranged they cancel at the eleventh hour - but of course it's never their fault that the meetings don't happen, it's of course everyone else being obstructive! And then they wonder why everyone is pissed off with them...

Yes I do think it's a genuine indignation rather than transference. To my surprise she suggested a weekend away a couple of years ago and we were pretty far down the road in planning when she said she couldn't do it after all, which is fine in itself but somehow it felt like my fault for not finding a way to make it work.

I've got a friend like this. The number of whatsapp convos we've had where I say 'I can do Monday, Tuesday, Thursday or Saturday next week - what suits you?' just to be met with weeks of silence... if you're passive aggressive you could reply to your own offered dates with "do you want to meet on any of these days then?' Etc. But I wouldn't hold my breath...

Sounds like there is more going on for her, though.

Honestly it does sound like your friend is in somewhat controlling relationship and perhaps cannot see it.

As other said you need to be Frank with your friend. I would say something like:

Hi x, I think you are blaming me for not meeting up which I don't feel is very fair. I have been more than flexible meeting up and am happy to move my diary around to facility. The last few times we have met up you have to leave shortly afterwards and are not fully engaged in our time together as you need to leave and do x for your dh. I think this is why it seems like we rarely meet up as the meetings are so short. I suggest you fix a day with your dh to take the kids out for the day and then we can have a day out and a catch up together without feeling rushed.

Indignation is part of the gaslighting

These people know exactly what they're doing

They wreck families. They get them running round after them and the ripples of whatever unpleasant thing they're doing go very far and they even get them blaming wrong members

She's pretending to be indignant she's just pissed off that you dare to confront her and tell the truth.

She sounds massively annoying. Do you still want to be friends with her? I probably wouldn't. I would either just completely ignore her messages complaining about your unavailability or tell her some home truths.

She also sounds like crap company if her contribution is just boasting about her wealth. That really doesn't sound like fun.

Goodness me she sounds insufferable!
Why on earth are you putting up with her shitty behaviour?
See friends who appreciate you and who you want to spend time with - life is far too short for all this nonsense from your so-called friend.

If you're going to stop seeing her, you have nothing to lose being honest.

Susan, your husband is controlling and you are never able to meet up because he makes it impossible. If you know that and need help to leave, I'm here for you. If you don't know, be told. If you know and don't care, there's no point.

Very relatable! Does my head in 🙈 not unreasonable to take a step back from this

I have a friend who is a bit like this. In her case, she fills their calendars with so many activities that she really doesn’t have time to meet up. Then she’s annoyed - as though everyone else is excluding her.

It sounds as though you have made enough effort.

How much are you getting from this friendship? is it worth the stress?

I have a friend very similar to what you’ve described! In her case, she and her partner are photographers so their weekends are generally taken up doing shoots - which is when the rest of us, who work the usual M-F, are free. She constantly acts as if we’re leaving her out of plans, even though we always invite her and get told that she has shoots 🤷🏻‍♀️

'You're probably thinking there's an abusive dynamic because I know that's how her behaviour seems written down but I actually don't think there is(aside from the arguably abusive refusal to let her have a life'

So there IS abuse going on.

Or at least something that's stopping her.

Your friend might be a bit flaky and unreliable because of lots of different reasons but it sounds to me that this behaviour hasn't always been present during your friendship and that you've known her a long time.

So let's look at it more. When was the last time you saw her husband? When was the last time you saw her? When was the last time you saw her by herself, without the kids? How are they all getting on? Do the kids seem happy?

You either accept that this is how your friend is, or you don't and you walk away, but before you do, I'd urge you to consider if there's abuse or anything else that would be causing your friends behaviour.

My thoughts are that if she's always behaved like this, it could be her personality- if she hasn't always behaved like this then there's something causing the change in behaviour: abuse, not coping with something else going on...

I don't know how you'd get her on her own and for long enough for her to open up if she always has the children but maybe suggesting going for a long walk with the kids or suggesting a day out purely centred around the kids interests may help?

I appreciate how difficult it might be for you, but I think there's more to this.

I know someone like this and whenever she tries it I remind her 'oh it was you that couldn't make it last time'. She seems surprised and it doesn't change her mind and she carries on thinking it's me. But I feel better for speaking up because it means I don't take on the role she is trying to give me. If it was a friend doing it though I wouldn't bother and just walk away from the friendship. You can't change her and I can't see the point of the friendship.

I wouldn't bother with her. It would annoy me too much. The looking at her watch is just plain rude. And the bragging about wealth is pretty grim too.

Agree with PP, you've nothing to lose by being honest as it sounds like if you leave things as they are you'll just drift. I don't think that friends should be yes-men, you should be able to say things as they are sometimes.

Agreed. I'd say something like, 'Here I am, just tell me where and when'.