To wonder if my DIL is a gold digger?

[practicalorparanoid]

My son (28) got married recently. His father, who sadly passed away, and I had built a successful business, so there is significant family wealth involved.

As a wedding gift, I bought my son and DIL a lovely 3 bedroom flat in central London (they gave me a shortlist of 3, then we picked out altogether) so they’d never have to worry about housing, but I kept it in my name. My son also works in the family business, but he doesn’t own any shares in it. He earns a perfectly decent salary (around £50k), although the business could obviously afford to pay him much more if we wanted. The company ownership and the wider family assets are all structured so they stay within the bloodline and can’t be lost in the event of a divorce. Hopefully one day they’ll pass to his children.

I’ve genuinely tried to be a good MIL. I have only ever been complimentary to DIL, I don’t give unsolicited advice, and despite technically owning the flat they live in, I’d never dream of letting myself in or turning up unannounced. As far as I’m concerned, it’s their home.

My son was completely on board with all of this. He was happy to sign a prenup because he felt that if someone genuinely loved him, sensible financial protections shouldn’t be an issue.

The problem is that my DIL seems increasingly unhappy with the arrangements. She’s commented that the flat “isn’t really theirs”, questioned why my son doesn’t own shares in the company, and has said that if he had more access to the family money they could have had more domestic help (they already have a cleaner coming once a week), live a more relaxed lifestyle and she’d be able to stop working and become a SAHM once they have children.

That, to me, is where alarm bells start ringing. They’re living rent-free in a beautiful home that I bought for them, my son has a stable career, and they’re comfortable. Yet the focus seems to be on why they don’t have access to more.

I’m not accusing her of anything outright, but it’s hard not to wonder whether she’s more interested in the wealth than in my son when the main complaints are about not having access to assets that were never intended to be marital property in the first place.

I think the OP’s other children seem to have used it as a springboard to better themselves. I think the OP recognises and has mentioned repeatedly that this one of her sons- is basically a bit of a charming dosser, which is fine until his wife realises that by OP providing him with a luxury flat in London and a lifetime safe job working for mum he’s never going to do anything else.
Also why a 3 bed flat? A 1 bed flat would have been a great start up but would still create a strong push to move on because it would be necessary to move to have a family. By providing a 3 bed the OP’s son NEVER has to move.
I think the DIL was unwise to marry him if she wants children or ever wants to have any assets of her own. I think that’s why the questions about future finances are coming up now.

Not when you read what OP has actually said, no, I don’t think it is at all. Unless by ‘OP’s controlling’ you mean ‘OP expects them to work for what they want, and won’t just fund them’.

The gift was the opportunity she provided for them to live wherever they wanted without the burden of housing costs, giving them considerable freedom to build their lives however they want to from that starting point. They don’t have to live in it, and her son doesn’t have to work for her. It’s entirely up to them.

Absolutely. So many PPs are blinded by the house situation but it’s irrelevant.

I don’t know how to say this without sounding weird, but OP you are MY HERO. If only more business owners and women with wealth took the same approach to protecting assets as you do.

You don’t owe your DIL a certain lifestyle that she is not willing to work towards herself (with a huge helping hand of no housing costs, no less…). Her comments are absolutely appalling and a huge red flag, yes. Unfortunately you should expect more tension / throwing her teddies out of the pram around this, as time goes on.

I think it’s insane to be this involved in someone else’s marriage.

‘All my worldly goods’ - yes, the husband’s worldly goods that he has built during the marriage. Not OP’s.

Those aren’t universal vows, by the way.

All the time they are married it is theirs' to live in or rent out as they want with no expenses. If they divorce that is something that has to be considered by MIL as it will not be up to them.

We lived in a tied house, that is as long as my DH worked at a particular place we could live there. There were other more onerous conditions, i.e. we could not even put up an aerial without permission etc. If we divorced, as long as he worked there, I would have had to move out.

So what is the difference? There home is free of conditions except they do not divorce. Plus it is far more luxurious than anything they could afford on their wages and maintained to a much better standard.

Exactly. So why was the OP so insistent on a pre-nup? Because her son did not have any assets upon marriage and the OP clearly does not provide further assets to her children after marriage.

What’s concerning about op’s behaviour? She buys a flat with her money, it’s in her name. She gives shares in her business - she wants control over who can own those shares. She has no obligation to do anything for anyone at all and could leave all her money to the donkey sanctuary if she likes.

No one’s ever offered to buy me somewhere I can live for free before, so I don’t know the etiquette. I guess it was impossible for dil and son to say ‘no, it’s alright mum, you keep your money and we’ll get by on our own?’ Or lend us a deposit and we’ll pay you back? It’s so unbearably entitled to expect your parents to fund you to live as you please, especially your widowed mum/mil.

I'm not sure what world you live in but free high end housing in Central London is not "irrelevant" to most people. It would make a massive fucking difference to most people. Even if for some reason it was cut off after a year or two (which there is no reason to think it would be).

Those who don't think this counts as a gift because it's not "no strings" - would you object if OP had said, "I'll pay your rent, wherever you want to live, for two years on a totally no strings attached basis."?

She didn't say he had no assets. He had, at least, the £80,000 inheritance from his dad.

“Plenty of reasons. OP may choose to give him company shares, for example. That’s being the case, it was entirely prudent of her to make sure her assets and business wouldn’t be compromised or lost in any divorce. Entirely normal, and entirely sensible, for wealthy families.“

Ask the same question, get the same answer.

I've read all the OP's posts and I honestly can't see anything wrong in what she's done to protect her own assets and family money.
Its fine for dil to be a sahm but it's not fine to expect the in-laws to finance it.
And 50k plus whatever dil earns, is not a terrible income in London, if you have no housing costs. Lots of people rent, so live in homes they don't own and which could be sold from under them tomorrow. Sil doesn't have to worry about that. She could save a significant chunk of money every month from her
and her dh's salary and buy a property in her name outright. And relatively quickly, since her living costs are subsidised.

I think this is a bit gold diggery. Or at least an unreasonable entitlement to someone else's money - I'd be cautious in IPs position too. Dil is getting a huge leg up in life and could use that to maximise her own assets. Instead she's just whinging that OP isn't giving her free money to sit at home popping out babies!

‘This involved’ - she’s protected her own interests, given them a huge leg up, and then left them to it to build or not build as they see fit.

OP you are my hero. Your thinking is exactly how a person building up a successful business will think. You are very reasonable to protect your family wealth for next generation. Your DIL has many red flags. And I am talking as a DIL married into a wealthy family who wants to stand on my own feet and build up my own wealth, too.

A gift isn’t a gift if you don’t own it. Is that how you give people gifts?

I genuinely can't tell if you're trying to say that OP should give them more free stuff or less free stuff.

The house was never the gift.

The gift is the opportunity to live where they want and to build their lives without the burden of having to pay for their own housing.

Lending a family your holiday home for two weeks completely free is a gift isn't it? Or would you refuse to accept that because of the "strings"?

Anyway you didn't answer the question - would you object if OP had said, "I'll pay your rent, wherever you want to live, for two years on a totally no strings attached basis."?

It is a weird situation if thought my MIL could evict me or fire my husband from his job anytime she liked I think I would never feel like we were building a life independently. I would also feel my husband would align with his mother on almost everything for fear of jeopardising his whole set up

@NoisyViewer I think you’re slightly conflating two different things: what I value as a mother and what the business values as an employer.

I’m enormously proud of all of my children, but for completely different reasons. I’m proud of my eldest son’s drive and work ethic, how intelligent he is and what a wonderful dad he is. I’m proud of this son because he’s kind, funny, charming and the sort of person everyone enjoys being around. He’s the fun uncle and would do absolutely anything for the people he loves. I’m proud of my youngest daughter because she’s bright, incredibly hardworking and has achieved a great deal already for someone her age, but also has a heart of gold and never takes herself too seriously. And I’m incredibly proud of my eldest daughter because she’s a fantastic mother, she’s intelligent, sporty and one of the most caring people I know.

I could write a much longer list for each of them, but you get the idea. I’m proud of the people they’ve become, their values, their kindness and the lives they’re building. I’m also their mum, so I’m sure I’m biased! None of those things have a salary attached to them.

When it comes to the business, though, I think they should be paid for the value they bring to the business, just like any other employee. I don’t think it would be fair on anyone if I paid my child more because I happen to adore them or because I think they’re a wonderful person. If I paid my children according to how proud I am of them as their mother, I could never pay any of them enough. The business has to reward commercial contribution, not maternal affection.

I think it might help you to reframe it a bit @practicalorparanoid . Are you grateful to your DIL for working to provide a good life for your grandchildren? It is hard work and an emotional wrench going out to work when your children are very small.

She is feeling the benefit obviously in that life would be a lot less comfortable with a mortgage or rent to pay, but is not wealthy in any way that would enable her to look after her children herself, which is probablyher focus at this stage in life. Once the DC are teenagers and retirement planning comes around, I think she will feel really differently (all being well with the marriage)

I think also in heterosexual relationships pregnancy and childbirth has an impact on the woman that is not felt by the man (obviously), which I found surprising and experienced as a 'weakness' that my DH didn't experience and couldn't understand or even recognise on lots of ways. If this is causing some resentment in itself, the financial imbalance that already exists is likely to exacerbated.

I do think that DILs (where there are grandchildren) do benefit from a bit more support, inclusion and cheerleading from their PILs than SILs do. SILs/dads generally aren't knocked in the self worth/sense of self through parenthood in the way that women can be.

She’s got a point about the home. Presumably if they divorced she’d be turfed out? So they need to start thinking about how to save for their own place.
he’d be better off working somewhere else where he can start to get promoted and earn more money.

I don’t know what you want from this thread OP. You have done this exact same financial arrangement for your other 3 children, they all seem happy and grateful. You have known and say that you loved your DIL for years. Do you believe her whole personality has changed? Can you conceive at all that your wedding gift to this particular couple has caused strain in their relationship? That in this particular instance it’s not the right sort of gift?

I admit I do not understand the legalities of it but, if I was in a position where someone outright bought a house for me to live in (at worst) and I could enjoy my 20’s/30’s and save for my own property, I would have been absolutely delighted!

I live in Northern Ireland but from what I understand £50K is a smallish salary for central London? So this young couple are getting a huge hand up, in my opinion.

If I were them, I’d probably either get the son more involved in the business and negotiate a higher salary etc and be saving to buy my own place, or I’d get a higher paid position which the mum has said she would be fine about.

I assume the daughter in law works now, so if they saved her salary and lived on his, they could soon save a substantial amount.

I am just going on the premise that £50K is enough to live on in London without housing costs?

The mother in law does sound cautious, yes, but rightly so in my opinion and she sounds very generous.