Has anyone noticed a lot of the summer camps for poor children are in expensive villages miles away from where a lot of poor kids actually live?

[Noahide]

The strange thing about the Haf programme in my (not small) town is that the majority of the summer camps are in more expensive villages that are a few miles from here.
Seems strange when most children eligible for Haf have parents who cannot drive and it’s unlikely many children in said expensive villages are eligible.

Again how do you know? Why don’t you just start a post about how you dislike the people in the village, while not actually knowing anything about them other than your prejudice?

why havent you and all the other “well we don’t like those people so we’re not going THERE!!” apply for haf funding and start
your own groups? That’s what’s happening in the village next to us, an ex mining village with as you define… poor children.. or do you feel better complaining about those who do start up things?

Yes they are undersubscribed because there’s still numerous spaces left on the last day it’s possible to book there. Unlike the small number of Haf clubs in the large town where spaces go straight away.

Haf is for children eligible for means tested free school meals I’m unsure why you’re taking offence at the word poor? My kids are eligible for Haf if that gives me a p word pass?

I don’t find it surprising because I would suspect that the organisations able to offer these programmes are typically located where they have a dedicated space and that more of these provisions exist in well off areas. I know that the outdoor pursuits centre I use for DD has a HAF programme and that their facility is necessarily located next to the river, woods and land where they operate. I also know that they’re very flexible about start times and willing to help wherever possible so I’d imagine if someone was having problems getting there for 8am they’d work with them to find a solution.

I run a food bank for a living - so good amount of overlap in service provision - and, yes, actually getting people signed up and attending who would benefit most from this provision is a significant issue.

Where have I said I dislike people in the villages? I’ve just said it’s difficult to get to for parents who don’t drive which a lot of Haf parents don’t. Nothing against clubs in the villages I just think more in the big town would be nice

and how do I know? Because rightmove exists lol

Then why mention the villages and the residents at all?

Ok apologies on the word "poor".
Are you wanting your children to attend this camp?
Have you actually told the organisers you can't get there?
There might be transport available.

“Rightmove exists lol”

so you’re going on rightmove to decide for yourself if areas should be running summer clubs for kids….🤔

Because it’s relevant to my point? And I’m not sure why you’re taking offence? I haven’t said there’s anything wrong with the people living in the small villages I’ve just said not many children live there it’s mainly elderly people the few young families that live there are wealthy because it’s half a million pounds to buy a regular sized house. What part of this offends you?

Apart from the children who are eligible because of some other disadvantage (young carer, looked after etc) then HAF pretty much DOES mean poor. The cut off for means tested free school meals is low. Many struggling families are not eligible.

OP, I thiink some people don't have a scooby about what it is for familes from this kind of background.

Someone above mentioned paying customers can attend so it sounds like the summer camps are provided in areas with families able to pay and the free places offered because they've attracted enough paying customers.

Would the more affluent customers choose to send their children to a summer camp in the apparently poverty stricken town?

Poor children? What’s the definition of a poor child? It’s not a very nice label.
How are you getting there then? You could offer lifts?

look I have lived in this part of the country my entire life everyone knows that these villages are very small, mainly populated by elderly people who bought their homes decades ago and any children who do live there will have very wealthy parents who can afford the house prices.

Why is this triggering you?

The definition in this instance is a family who is eligible for means tested benefits free school meals.

For a family with one child that is an income under £22,700.

In my area 15% of the places can be taken up by children from otehr disadvantaged groups eg young carers, EHCM, looked after, at risk of exclusion or on a Child in Need plan

@ noahide surely that would be SCPC not HAF?

Totally agree with you on that. What a derogatory way to describe it.
We have no benefits but both my son and his sibling can attend because he is a previously looked after child.

I wonder if it’s related to the cost of hiring the venue, and venue availability.

I live in a village, and our village hall is often used for summer camps. The village hall is cheap to hire, and often available. The village hall committee need the money, so they’re keen for people to hire it.

Conversely the nearby town has a couple of similar venues, but they’re always busy with other events, so they don’t have the availability for summer camps.

OP if there are several of you with the same problem, why not arrange for the kids to share a taxi to the village. It would still work out cheaper than child care you had to pay for.

@Noahide

I've had 3 foster children who gave attended HA funded activities
None of them were specifically HAF clubs, but clubs or activities which had places for HAF.
For example, my last foster child attended a weekly gymnastics club which I paid for during term time. The club doesnt close in the holidays, I could send him every day if I wanted but only a certain number would be HAF funded. It was 4 sessions at Easter and Christmas, I think 6 in the summer.

I’ve just looked at the list in this area. There are about 30 HAF schemes and all but 2 are on built up town centre type places - mostly schools and church halls.

As somebody who has run one of these programmes in the past, we found that some venues would allow us venue hire for free which meant that we had more of a budget to spend on the activities for the kids. They also had better facilities and resources - even basics like they provided us with access to their stock cupboard of toilet paper/dilute/ equipment etc etc. This may influence the venue choice.

The vast majority are though, do you think being poor is a shameful thing?

One of my friends volunteers at this

I think it's brilliant that they exist at all

Your question sounds inflammatory but really the issue is more lack of public transport

There are a lot of activity providers who don't really want to do it so they won't help out with services in city centres

I don't really understand the complaint. It's nothing to do with the people providing it and it's really good that it's been provided.

The villages you talk about may have good infrastructure is because one time they had lots of children there people aren't born elderly and you shouldn't be criticising them anyway

My friend is a retired teacher

Can't do right for doing wrong, really

maybe you should volunteer and coordinate these big things all over the country and see how you do finding finding facilities that are nearer to public transport

People on Mumsnet will pick apart everything you say and tell you you're wrong about something they know absolutely nothing about. I know exactly the kind of villages you mean.

That’s correct. The HAF programme, funded by the government, will cover the places for children who meet the criteria (usually children on FSM, but there are other qualifiers too). They’re usually council-run, or run by organisations who work in partnership with the council, and are generally cheaper than private companies for those who do pay to attend. For example, my son’s club today was £18 for 9am-3pm which is a club which offers HAF spaces, compared to the club he’s going to tomorrow which was £25 for the same time.

Okay, so is there no demand in these villages? Can they cancel those? Is the take up very low in which case it would make sense to cancel it