…to think that a childrens members club is a want, not an education need?

[ThisNattyUser]

Name change as outing.

An acquaintance of mine (we’ve never met in person, but we correspond frequently) is a single mum to a school-age child. This child has been diagnosed with Emotional School Based Avoidance (ESBA) since they were in preschool . Child has never attended a formal schooling setting as even the words “school”, “learning” etc. is enough to give them an anxiety attack. AFAIK the child is homeschooled by a childminder.

On to the bit that I wonder if I’m being unreasonable about. There’s a well-known members club for children. An upscale place where the fees run in the thousands (lower 5 figures). AFAIK the members club is not a specialised neurodivergent-led educational environment. More like a luxury soft play where prep school kids are taken to by their nannies while their HNWI parents socialise. Acquaintance is pushing for the Local Authority to fund membership at this club for their child.

I’ve visited this club before as the guest of a nanny whose child is a member. while membership at this club is very desirable among a particular London set, I wouldn’t say it’s a place of education - more like a space for rich kids to play while having their whims and fancies catered to (much like members clubs for adults I suppose!)

while I appreciate that this acquaintance is fighting for their child to receive alternate education provision, AIBU to think that a fancy members club is a want, not a need?

I only know what this mum tells me. That her child has school based avoidance from preschool but the child won’t say why, that the child is ASD and gets anxiety from loud noises and figures of authority ie adults telling them what to do, so school is not for them

Last time the child attended a compulsory learning setting was age 3 at a preschool, so technically it’s a school? Or maybe not

Not a member, but I’ve been. It’s very (very) nice, and there’s some vaguely educational stuff. But no one there is going to teach him how to write unless they’re also employing a tutor.

I know a bit about K&C’s provisions and there is no way on earth they’d fund this.

The mum can ask all she wants, but she’ll be directed to the local library like everyone else.

Why would you need to know the extent of the child's needs?

She's going to need lots of evidence of the child's needs and why no other school or setting can meet needs before she gets any alternative provision so not sure why you're concerned about it?

If the child is diagnosed with ASD (and presumably from a fairly young age as they are now 7 and did not cope at preschool age 3) then mainstream may well not be a good solution.

specialist Sen schools are insanely expensive and EOTAS packages can also be expensive.

I’d be surprised if she got purple dragon funded though (having looked at the website).

But how long for?

it’s just so vague.

i have four, and work in preschool. My third took six months to settle. We flexi school. All four. But this just sounds ridiculous

Interesting, so you think that it’s unlikely that the LA would consider this members club as an alternative schooling provision?

I’m just curious about whether this is a big ask from the LA. Maybe I’m in a similar boat and it never crossed my mind to apply for something similar because I’m wondering if it’s unreasonable to expect it and I’ll be taken less seriously by the LA for trying.

I cannot imagine how the mum would go about making a case that only PD can socialise the kid, or that it would help educationally.

I know (professionally, admittedly a few years ago) about adult social care in K&C, and in my experience all the teams are used to batshit and over-entitled residents thinking that they can get 5* services from the council because that’s what they’re used to. They don’t.

She said maybe less than 6 months at preschool before the child’s ESBA began

There is no way they will fund that, and asking for it makes her sound insane so weakens every other argument she makes. We had to look at EOTAS for our youngest, so I’m familiar with what can be done. But if you are in a position to make suggestions to her I’d suggest you point her towards home ed provision which will be much more suitable and likely have more similar kids.

Your child has a right to a suitable education, and if your child's special educational needs mean that their education cannot be provided in any school then you should definitely look at applying for an EOTAS package.
You are unlikely to get to choose the provision though and you will need lots of evidence and support from professionals.

I may gently suggest this to her the next time we speak but I’m afraid she’ll take it the wrong way. she’s got her heart set on this club and thinks it’s the solution to all her problems

it’s the only place her child might play independently and leave her alone on her days off. I do understand to a degree as my children are very high needs but somehow at this club they’re more likely to give me space as there’s lots of staff there to engage with and play with the children

luckily my children have their SEN met. although being a member of the club would be a luxury I wouldn’t mind if I knew there was even a chance the LA would fund it! other posters have suggested its not the case so I don’t think I’ll even dare to ask

EOTAS placements are high threshold & hard to get. If the kid doesn't need it then it wouldn't be funded.

Sounds wildly inappropriate to me but If there is a reason why it would work then what's the issue. (??Jealousy).

It's probably still cheaper than an EOTAS placement with high needs or a 1:1 SEN school

I’m not sure how that sort of funding works but I guess there must be some sort of guidance as to what is and what isn’t covered.
we don’t have anything like that here!!

I imagine EOTAS are very hard to get, this mum has been trying for a long time to get this clubs fees funded but the LA have yet to be convinced

that’s why I’m wondering if this club would actually work as an alternative to schooling or if it’s a luxury the LA just don’t want to pay for

In the current climate she has a better chance of getting this approved than at any other time in history lol
let us know if she's successful or not!

If she has a high enough level of need that the LA would fund this it’s likely her needs are too high for a group of play workers to manage anyway, my youngest is currently able to attend mainstream school but I highly doubt that kind of club would be able to manage him!

I doubt the club itself would agree to it tbh.

Members pay for exclusivity & to network with like minded people.

I wouldn't get wound up about it. If that's the battle she's chosen leave her to it.

true enough, the club is always busy and full of kids, I’ve never seen 1:1 staff

I had to have a quick google of this club because I’m not even familiar with the concept of it, never mind specifics of different clubs. I’m not in London, am not wealthy and I never knew such a thing existed!

But speaking as the parent of a exceptionally bright but very highly complex child who has never been able to go to school and has been on an EOTAS package for years… It’s really frustrating to see people making judgemental comments about them not trying school or the fact the child isn’t reading or writing yet. Clearly you don’t have a clue.

I don’t know enough about this child’s needs, the club, or what else is available in the area to have a very strong opinion about the suitability of this as a provision. However, it looks like it could tick the boxes for PE, music, art, and socialising among other things, and if a child had to access these things separately then the cost of this can add up if they struggle in most group settings and end up with a load of 1:1 sessions.

My child’s EOTAS package is nearly 6 figures per year. If my child were able to get a significant chunk of their provision through a place such as this then it would probably be comparatively very cost-effective. That said, a child whose level of need is such that they could access this kind of place (mine certainly couldn’t) then they could probably manage home ed groups at a fraction of the cost, so this setting wouldn’t actually be in lieu of all sorts of 1:1 sessions?

Presumably the staff at this place won’t have any specialist training which makes this the only feasible place? The only thing I could think would be if this was the only place the child will actually go and is already very familiar with it but I assume they aren’t already members?

Basically I can see how this might be great for some EOTAS kids, but isn’t likely to be the most cost-effective way of meeting the needs of those whose needs are low enough to actually go to the place…

Oh and just FYI, EOTAS quite often doesn’t involve any formal English and maths teaching, depending on what the child can cope with. My child has never been able to access formal curriculum learning. Everything is done through a wide range of enrichment stuff basically - and it’s amazing how much can be learned this way when they always have 1 or 2 adults to themselves, to talk, listen, build on ideas, think on their feet and extend learning in the moment.

you’re right about exclusivity. the few times I’ve visited the club (as a guest) I felt very out of place among the glamourous parents there, I fit in better with the nannies!

From their website

Is Purple Dragon or The Outpost a school or childcare provider?
No. They are not schools or nurseries, and they do not operate as full-time childcare providers.

Supervised, drop-off services are offered at specific times - such as holiday camps - and babysitting can be arranged by prior booking where available.

Outside of these services, supervision and access are governed by age-appropriate independent access guidelines.

(The Outpost is for ages 9-17)

I don’t think this club has any specialist SEN training. my children have had ASD meltdowns there before and while the staff were kind enough to try and help, they didn’t seem so familiar with neurodivergent childrens needs, triggers, strategies for coping etc. as in they tried to manage the situation like you would with any neurotypical child

very informative about EOTAS, I had no idea. Thank you. I’m glad your children get the provision they need