AIBU to ask whether you own a Bible?

[BeanQuisine]

Just idle curiosity, really.

We often hear right-wingers insisting "This is a Christian country", whether we're in UK, Oz or the US etc.

So I'm wondering how many of us actually own Bibles, and whether we ever read them. I did read assorted bits of it in my youth, but don't currently own a Bible.

YABU: Whether Mumsnetters own Bibles or not is none of your business.

YANBU: It's a vaguely interesting question.

No Bible here and and only Northern Ireland can hold up the claim to be a Christian country. England, Wales and Scotland are not.

England and Wales 46.3% are Christian - largest group but less than half the population

Scotland 51.1% have no religion - largest group and more than half

Northern Ireland - 89.2% are Christian

Oh Master B!!

What are you like? Shakespeare IS funny in parts. But you have to see if performed - I'm not a great one for thinking kids should be made to just read it,and I was an English teacher. Something shocking to confess, in view of that: realised I hadn't understood what Shakespeare was trying to do until I went to The Globe Theatre to see The Tempest. The architecture of the theatre and its relationship to the writing was suddenly very clear - the nobs up at the top, who appreciated the classical references and the groundlings in front of the stage who wanted slap-stick, innuendo and knockabout fun. He couldn't write exclusively for either group - he had to combine low comedy with tragedy.

I say once again; get yourself to a copy of The Children's Bible from the 60s (piled high in charity shops or 2nd hand bookshops these days) and be amazed at the illustrations. To an adult, they are funny too! That baby Jesus which the shepherds are kneeling in front of looks about 18 months to 2 years old. And Delilah and Samson look like Jean Simmons and Victor Mature. And in the Garden of Eden, some very convenient bits of vegetation are covering Adam and Eve's modesty. It's well worth a look, I promise you.

You don't know what you're missing!

Yes, several.

For eg, the detail about the numbers of animals (I'm a veggie so there's a distressing element, obvs) and the fussiness about how it was to be done. Sacrifice was a part of life in so many cultures and while I don't believe the numbers mentioned here necessarily, it tells you so much about their attitudes to what they thought pleased God.

The Egyptians sacrificed sacred animals and had them mummified - in huge numbers. Horrible but interesting.

Some cultures sacrificed humans and although it's obviously barbaric to us, before scientific knowledge, as far as they were concerned, the return of the sun in spring, or a good harvest absolutely depended on it.

It's an insight into what went on when the British Isles were in the Bronze Age - about which we have no written records at all. These Middle Eastern cultures were way ahead and the Bible is one source for how they lived, what they believed and how they worshipped. I don't know how that isn't interesting.

Also - am I right in thinking that the Jews were highly unusual in worshipping one God? Most cultures at that time were pantheistic - having just one God was mighty unusual.

I think it's infinitely more likely that I just socialise with people who are similar to me. I'm atheist as are my parents. I married an atheist who comes from an atheist family. None of us attend church and never have.

It's normal for people to socialise and attract people who have similar values and traditions, and of course religion is a part of that.

We own 6 and two Books of Common Prayer. Neither of us is religious in the slightest.
We inherited all of them and, given the family connections, we cannot bear to get rid of them.

Of course not.

Sure. Yes, of course there are different cultures within Britain, and even within the individual countries (I would say on a global scale they are very similar to each other though). Culture is about a lot of things like - how long do you wait in a conversation before you interrupt? How loud can you be on trains? How close should you stand? When should you apologise? What's the default greeting as you enter a house? Do you invite friends to your house or to a coffee shop? It's impossible to list them all, but for some of these questions the answer is different in London than the norms I grew up with, and I make a conscious effort to go with the local version. For example sshhing my kids on the bus at the "British" level of acceptable volume.

My ancestry is mixed including English, and my husband's is a mix of British/Irish cultures. My children's cultural inheritance is therefore mainly English with influence from the other side of my ancestry. So when they're older, I'll supplement the above behavioural things with explicit instruction in e.g. English history, Christian art appreciation etc, in a ratio which reflects their ancestry. They're young now and I tell them stories of their ancestors which obviously are stories rooted in the specific history of the places they lived.

No part of their ancestry is Muslim, to your question. To understand themselves as people, to understand their ancestors or family stories or our cultural traditions etc, they don't need a deep understanding from childhood of what it means to be Muslim.

This is separate from having general knowledge about the Muslim faith, the history of Muslims in the UK, political questions relating to Muslims here, whether or not to hand pork sandwiches to your Muslim coworkers etc. I think those kinds of things are pretty easy to learn in adulthood or whenever you first meet someone who's Muslim (same logic for any other cultural group).

What I'm pushing back against is some idea of being a citizen of the world where you raise children who half believe that they're Muslim or that they're randomly assigned or can pick and choose from religious/cultural traditions based on vibes. Which is sort of how I was raised.

So, the Bible is great because you can get a dated kids version and laugh at the kitsch illustrations? That doesn't exactly back up your original premise that

And Shakespeare wrote for both sophisticated and unsophisticated audiences? Wow. Like Pixar.

Well, yes. But that's what I mean by an 'extraordinarily selective' circle.

To not know anyone at all who is religious. Do you have colleagues, for example? And with 75% of people owning a bible (including plenty of atheists like me), you are bound to end up knowing one of them if you move in even moderately bookish or educated circles. Even people who've just inherited one they haven't read since childhood.

As in, 75% is the same proportion of people as have drunk alcohol in the past year. Obviously it's possible to not know anyone at all who has, but that would be a very selective group too.

No. I had a colourful children's bible as a child, and I did read it. I'm christened but I'm not religious at all.

But that’s not British culture, you’re just teaching them the norms of behaviour in London. Which I’m surprised about because London is such a melting pot of people and culture that I don’t really get how you would teach them that at all. I wouldn’t call you tracing them your version of manners teaching them culture at all?

Also, teaching your children the basics of other religions isn’t teaching them to be ‘half Muslim’ or assigning them some other random religion. Thankfully your children’s school will make up for where you have deliberately chosen to lack. That’s the magical thing about the UK, we let children learn about the world and not just a parents narrow view of it

I was curious about your thoughts at first and looking forward to an engaging conversation but I don’t want to participate this any longer, it’s insane ignorance, it’s barely even ignorance because it is a deliberate choice that you seem proud of, as though you’re some sort of forward thinking person.

I won’t be responding any further.

Enjoy your day.

Exactly. Homework. An insight, rather than a good story.

Not, as you suggested above, "a great read." A great read, to me, is an engaging, descriptive, emotive, roller-coaster ride of a story with a clarity of narrative and point of view. Not a rambling, incoherent, untruthful, contradictory cod-history of humanity. Too many characters, none of them fully developed. Too many plot strands, none of them fully resolved.

(And, as for how that passage isn't interesting, it isn't especially interesting to those of us who are broadly uninterested in the animal sacrificial behaviours of Bronze Age cultures i.e. most people.)

Ooh I would disagree with your last paragraph, hundreds of thousands of people are fascinated and visit ancient stone structures annually and they often want to know about sacrifices! It is a big question for many because we have twisted our minds to see our ancients ancestors as some sort of savages, unruly until Christianity straightens them out. But what you do learn about stone structures is their passion for the world, the sky and their quite exquisite mathematics.

If hundreds of thousands of people are particularly fascinated by the animal sacrifices of Bronze Age people, that means most people are not. That's just maths.

no, used to read but not anymore

Wow. Why did I bother.

To other posters, is it just me or is that an insane overreaction to quite a personal response from me?

For anyone else who is interested in discussing the difference between cultures, I was about to respond earnestly to this poster with this summary of a book I read several years ago, The Culture Map by Erin Meyer: https://readingraphics.com/book-summary-the-culture-map-erin-meyer/ which is an effort to try to distill different cultures along a few axes so that we can try to understand them and not assume that our own culture is the be-all and end-all of existence. I think it's quite small-minded to reduce culture to trivialities like food and clothing when it's something that imbues every aspect of a person's life in many large and small ways.

I certainly don't know where she got the idea that I'm not going to tell my children that Muslims exist (?!). If anything I'm envious of Muslim friends of mine who have a clear cultural and religious identity which is deeply meaningful to them, and I'd like my children to have as rich an understanding of their own cultural heritage.

Nope, no colleagues, I work alone. So does DH (both self-employed).

When I say "own a bible" I'm more talking about people who actively read it, not just those who happen to have one shoved in a cupboard from when they were at school - I'm sure I know plenty in the latter category but I'm not sure it means anything other than they haven't had a clear out in a while!

I don’t know the statistics and I said hundreds of thousands go and ask, there will be others who are not able to go but are interested but due to financial or mobility restrictions they cannot visit such places.

Anyway, turns out Stonehenge attracts 1.3-1.4 million people every year. Now think of all the people who don’t go annually who would be curious?

Why is this thread full of ignorant people? Just because YOU don’t care doesn’t mean others don’t.

ETA Horrible Histories is insanely
popular for a reason, because this is the aspect of history many, many people are fascinated by.

No.

Raised RC, now atheist, no interest in religion

Nope, no Bibles in our house, but we aren’t Christian.

Why is this thread full of ignorant people? Just because YOU don’t care doesn’t mean others don’t.

I'm beginning to that wonder myself! There are some strange attitudes on here.

Some pps think that whatever they don't personally find interesting is officially BORING. No - we're all different. I just happen to find most things interesting on some level.

I love what would be designated 'highbrow' stuff, but I can also appreciate lots of cultural things which aren't. I've got a sense of humour too, which adds a lot to my enjoyment of history, literature, architecture etc.

Surprised by how many people own a bible! I don't think I know anyone who owns one, but over half of my family are Jewish and none are believers in any religion, neither are my friends.

Wasn't this country/area of the world pagan while the bible was being written?

We are a Christian country in that we generally celebrate things like Christmas, Easter etc. We get bank holidays for them but not for other religious holidays. Generally I don't understand the argument though as we have separation of church and state. Laws are influenced by cultural values though so I suppose being historically Christian influences it. But things change, many used the Bible to say same sex marriage was wrong but we made that legal.

Oh now you're just being silly.

I love archaeology. It's just history without the written information, isn't it? I AM fascinated by the past (some periods more than others) and the mystery of how people lived thousands of years ago does intrigue me. We can only look at stains in the ground or bits of stone and metal in the British Isles, but the Middle Eastern cultures were more advanced in terms of literacy and we know a lot more about how they lived. Absolutely your choice to be bored by it, but please don't label the actual subject as 'boring' - speak only for yourself. And don't try to suggest that people who are interested in these things are weirdos.

Indeed. Mainstream Christianity is not opposed to science.
One example is the Vatican Observatory
founded in 1891 by Pope Leo XIII it was one of the first astronomical research institutes in the world.