Page 17 | AIBU to ask whether you own a Bible?

BeanQuisine · 2026-07-14T06:12:15+00:00

Just idle curiosity, really. We often hear right-wingers insisting "This is a Christian country", whether we're in UK, Oz or the US etc. So I'm wondering how many of us actually own Bibles, and whether we ever read them. I did read assorted bits of it in my youth, but don't currently own a Bible. YABU: Whether Mumsnetters own Bibles or not is none of your business. YANBU: It's a vaguely interesting question.

ShetlandishMum · Today 14:22

GreenCandleWax · Today 12:00

Wow! That's amazing. Can I ask how you learned Hebrew and Greek well enough to be able to do this? I am keen to understand Koine Greek enough to make sense of some of the New Testament.

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University studies in Hebrew, Greek and and Latin.

DeanElderberry · Today 14:23

jackstini · Today 14:05

I do love reading about history from history books

Out of the 66 books in the bible though, quite a lot of them have a huge amount of history included!

For historical context, I can't ignore reading the widest read book on the planet with accounts and letters from numerous authors over around a 1500 year period

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71 books in mine.

A hugely significant difference between the bible and a lot of the other mythologies is that the first nine books of the Old Testament have one god who remains with his people wherever they are (including as captives of people with different gods) which is pretty radical. That 'Primary History' - Genesis to Kings (omitting Ruth, a historical novella written in response to Ezra) - was probably written during or just after the Babylonian captivity, incorporating some repetitious previously oral stuff on genealogy, land allocation and religious law as well as ancestor stories.

The people who wrote it knew about the Babylonian and Egyptian and Greek gods and had almost certainly read Homer and Hesiod, and this was their response to that, as well as to their experience of captivity, exile, and return.

God (OT version) nasty? Compare with the Greek gods.

HammyHocky · Today 14:23

CoffeeCantata · Today 14:18

Dismissing religious texts and religion does not mean you cannot participate in culture. Someone can enjoy parts of Christianity without actually reading the bible or thinking that Christianity is not real. Your comment suggested that you cannot have fully experienced culture without reading religious texts (well you said the bible but this works too), that is simply not true.

No, Hammy - that's not what I said.

An urban myth (it was told as fact, but I'm sceptical) illustrates what I'm trying to say:

A young woman was in a jeweller's shop and she asked for a cross on a chain. The jeweller got out some trays of crucifixes for her to choose from. She picked one up and said 'Ooh - I like this one with the little man on!'

I mean - no-one died (except for Jesus!), but if I were living in a country I'd feel pretty stupid if I didn't recognise, say, the primary symbol of that country's majority religion.

I went on a guided tour of Highgate Cemetery and learned a lot about the iconography of Victorian monuments - by the time I left I could 'read' the symbolism of the various statues and understand a bit about the Victorian attitude and experience of death, which was much less hidden and sanitised then.

That's what I mean by culturally enriching. You won't die without this enrichment, but it makes life so much more interesting and you gain an understanding of other people in different times.

But you didn’t say enriching, you said impoverished. The two things are very different, in my opinion.

And again, I don’t believe that you need to have read the stories in the bible to appreciate beautiful stained glass windows, to enjoy Misere Mei Deus, to be moved by Dali’s Christ. You don’t have to have read the bible to enjoy those experiences, to be enriched by the culture of a religion. I had never read anything of Hinduism till I visited a temple and was so amazied by the beauty of it all. I still enjoyed the cultural experience of it without having read the stories at that point. I think you’re conflating the two, personally.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · Today 14:26

MasterBeth · Today 13:59

No, the idea is that the Bible, for all its cultural importance, is not a great read. No, it's not!

This is not great prose or great storytelling or equivalent to a Hollywood blockbuster. It is, indeed, boring.

Hezekiah Purifies the Temple

Hezekiah was twenty-five years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem twenty-nine years. His mother’s name was Abijah daughter of Zechariah. He did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, just as his father David had done.

In the first month of the first year of his reign, he opened the doors of the temple of the Lord and repaired them. He brought in the priests and the Levites, assembled them in the square on the east side and said: “Listen to me, Levites! Consecrate yourselves now and consecrate the temple of the Lord, the God of your ancestors. Remove all defilement from the sanctuary. Our parents were unfaithful; they did evil in the eyes of the Lord our God and forsook him. They turned their faces away from the Lord’s dwelling place and turned their backs on him. They also shut the doors of the portico and put out the lamps. They did not burn incense or present any burnt offerings at the sanctuary to the God of Israel. Therefore, the anger of the Lord has fallen on Judah and Jerusalem; he has made them an object of dread and horror and scorn, as you can see with your own eyes. This is why our fathers have fallen by the sword and why our sons and daughters and our wives are in captivity. Now I intend to make a covenant with the Lord, the God of Israel, so that his fierce anger will turn away from us. My sons, do not be negligent now, for the Lord has chosen you to stand before him and serve him, to minister before him and to burn incense.”

Then these Levites set to work:

from the Kohathites,

Mahath son of Amasai and Joel son of Azariah;

from the Merarites,

Kish son of Abdi and Azariah son of Jehallelel;

from the Gershonites,

Joah son of Zimmah and Eden son of Joah;

from the descendants of Elizaphan,

Shimri and Jeiel;

from the descendants of Asaph,

Zechariah and Mattaniah;

From the descendants of Heman,

Jehiel and Shimei;

from the descendants of Jeduthun,

Shemaiah and Uzziel.

When they had assembled their fellow Levites and consecrated themselves, they went in to purify the temple of the Lord, as the king had ordered, following the word of the Lord. 16 The priests went into the sanctuary of the Lord to purify it. They brought out to the courtyard of the Lord’s temple everything unclean that they found in the temple of the Lord. The Levites took it and carried it out to the Kidron Valley. They began the consecration on the first day of the first month, and by the eighth day of the month they reached the portico of the Lord. For eight more days they consecrated the temple of the Lord itself, finishing on the sixteenth day of the first month.

Then they went in to King Hezekiah and reported: “We have purified the entire temple of the Lord, the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the table for setting out the consecrated bread, with all its articles. We have prepared and consecrated all the articles that King Ahaz removed in his unfaithfulness while he was king. They are now in front of the Lord’s altar.”

Early the next morning King Hezekiah gathered the city officials together and went up to the temple of the Lord. They brought seven bulls, seven rams, seven male lambs and seven male goats as a sin offering[a] for the kingdom, for the sanctuary and for Judah. The king commanded the priests, the descendants of Aaron, to offer these on the altar of the Lord. So they slaughtered the bulls, and the priests took the blood and splashed it against the altar; next they slaughtered the rams and splashed their blood against the altar; then they slaughtered the lambs and splashed their blood against the altar. The goats for the sin offering were brought before the king and the assembly, and they laid their hands on them. The priests then slaughtered the goats and presented their blood on the altar for a sin offering to atone for all Israel, because the king had ordered the burnt offering and the sin offering for all Israel.

He stationed the Levites in the temple of the Lord with cymbals, harps and lyres in the way prescribed by David and Gad the king’s seer and Nathan the prophet; this was commanded by the Lord through his prophets. So the Levites stood ready with David’s instruments, and the priests with their trumpets.

Hezekiah gave the order to sacrifice the burnt offering on the altar. As the offering began, singing to the Lord began also, accompanied by trumpets and the instruments of David king of Israel. The whole assembly bowed in worship, while the musicians played and the trumpets sounded. All this continued until the sacrifice of the burnt offering was completed.

When the offerings were finished, the king and everyone present with him knelt down and worshiped. King Hezekiah and his officials ordered the Levites to praise the Lord with the words of David and of Asaph the seer. So they sang praises with gladness and bowed down and worshiped.

Then Hezekiah said, “You have now dedicated yourselves to the Lord. Come and bring sacrifices and thank offerings to the temple of the Lord.” So the assembly brought sacrifices and thank offerings, and all whose hearts were willing brought burnt offerings. The number of burnt offerings the assembly brought was seventy bulls, a hundred rams and two hundred male lambs—all of them for burnt offerings to the Lord. The animals consecrated as sacrifices amounted to six hundred bulls and three thousand sheep and goats. The priests, however, were too few to skin all the burnt offerings; so their relatives the Levites helped them until the task was finished and until other priests had been consecrated, for the Levites had been more conscientious in consecrating themselves than the priests had been. There were burnt offerings in abundance, together with the fat of the fellowship offerings and the drink offerings that accompanied the burnt offerings.
So the service of the temple of the Lord was reestablished. Hezekiah and all the people rejoiced at what God had brought about for his people, because it was done so quickly.

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tldr,

But I'm sorry that happened to the Levites. Or happy for them.

CatBooksWineInThatOrder · Today 14:27

jackstini · Today 13:44

You can donate them via book aid - loads of people want them but can’t afford them or get easy access

www.book-aid.org/book-collection/

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Thank you! I will look into this. I’ll feel better if they can go to people who want them.

Foundress · Today 14:28

I have a Gideon Bible. It was given to me at my secondary school. That was a long time ago. I believe the Gideon Society once upon a time supplied free Bibles to schools, hospitals, prisons and hotels etc. I still read it occasionally.

CoffeeCantata · Today 14:29

But you didn’t say enriching, you said impoverished. The two things are very different, in my opinion.

They're 2 sides of the same coin. If something can be enriching, the lack of it can be impoverishing. And vice versa.

So my experience at Highgate was enriched by the information from the guide. It would have been impoverished if I'd just wandered around myself, looking without understanding.

CoffeeCantata · Today 14:30

XDownwiththissortofthingX · Today 14:26

tldr,

But I'm sorry that happened to the Levites. Or happy for them.

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😂😂😂

Wheelchairbarbie · Today 14:31

Yes, but it's on my bookshelf with my other books.
I also have a quran.
These are fascinating, ancient texts. Its incredible that we have them, so well preserved.
Why wouldn't I want to own one?

Excited101 · Today 14:31

I was given a bible when at primary school, and at some point in secondary I bought a book from the monks selling them in the city centre where I lived but I don’t own any religious texts now- I don’t see any benefit to it and religion makes me quite angry.

HammyHocky · Today 14:31

CoffeeCantata · Today 14:29

But you didn’t say enriching, you said impoverished. The two things are very different, in my opinion.

They're 2 sides of the same coin. If something can be enriching, the lack of it can be impoverishing. And vice versa.

So my experience at Highgate was enriched by the information from the guide. It would have been impoverished if I'd just wandered around myself, looking without understanding.

I disagree, sorry. It wouldn’t have been impoverished at all, it may not have been as enriching but it wouldn’t have been impoverished. And the stories in the bible don’t change the beauty of some of the art or architecture or music at all, you don’t need to know that God was pleased when a man cuts up his wife after she was gang raped to enjoy these things. It isn’t necessary. In fact, if anything knowing the stories has turned me even further off the religion, so for me it has made the enjoyment of those thing less.

OneAmberFinch · Today 14:31

BeanQuisine · Today 13:17

I think you'll find that those (relatively few) eminent scientists who are religious believers would probably agree with me, when I say it's good that science and rational philosophy hold greater intellectual authority than religion in the modern world.

Powerful Church leaders and theologians once dictated which scientific truths should be accepted and which should be rejected, and those who disagreed with them were silenced and often put to death.

Religious authority of that kind has long been vanquished but we should nonetheless remain vigilant that it stays that way.

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We should certainly be vigilant that any ideological groups are not able to influence which scientific truths should be rejected or accepted!

FrustratedApples · Today 14:32

Yes, several but that's because I'm a Christian.

LathkillDale · Today 14:35

I have the Jerusalem version in English and the Vulgate in Latin. The Vulgate was one of my set books for my degree; and we were advised to have it in English too, because we were expected to be able to recognise biblical references in other literature, we read. Some of the authors we read, were priests.

maximist · Today 14:42

OneAmberFinch · Today 12:08

How common is it for them to have lists of family members in them? I've always dreamed of finding an old family bible with my ancestors' names in it.

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They quite often do - sometimes I look up the family on Ancestry out of interest, but so far as I know I’ve never sold one back to the original family….

OneAmberFinch · Today 14:45

JHound · Today 13:51

Why would you feel impoverished? There is cultural knowledge you will surely have that they won’t? Why is lack of knowledge of the Christian faith specifically (or rather having read the bible) important?

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To me there are a few different aspects.

One is the shared cultural knowledge aspect. Any culture is easier to participate in if you have shared knowledge, you get the in-jokes and references and metaphors, you are building together on a shared foundation. This is the "art gallery Christianity" that many people are talking about. It's the same thing as it's easier to fit in at your private wealth management gig if you all went to Oxford and know the same ski resorts and can pun in Latin (but you might struggle at your local labour union branch meeting) - although of course we're talking on a larger scale.

The second, for me, is the rootedness aspect. This is more personal for me because I grew up living across several countries with an "international school" kind of education which, while an interesting cultural experience, has made me envious of people who have a very deep knowledge of one specific culture. I feel they have a confidence and security in knowing who they are, which I've struggled my whole life to identify. This is why I'm intentionally trying to raise my children in a specific faith and culture rather than the generic "citizen of the world" childhood I had.

(There is a third aspect, which is that of faith itself: I don't have a personal faith, and I'm not sure how I would come to it and if it's even possible. I think it is much easier to have it from childhood rather than reason yourself into it. I think it can be a source of great comfort, and can be additive to the above factors to increase quality of life generally. But I don't include it directly as it's something I can only look at from the outside.)

OneAmberFinch · Today 14:50

@JHound just to clarify the point about rootedness - for example if I put in effort I could learn about the history of Islamic art and symbolism and would be enriched whenever I travelled in Islamic countries etc.

However I would not feel that it was my personal cultural inheritance in the same way that I do with western/British culture - there is an additional layer of "this is where I come from, these are the stories of my people, these are the moral lessons my grandmother learned at her father's knee" etc.

CoffeeCantata · Today 14:54

LathkillDale · Today 14:35

I have the Jerusalem version in English and the Vulgate in Latin. The Vulgate was one of my set books for my degree; and we were advised to have it in English too, because we were expected to be able to recognise biblical references in other literature, we read. Some of the authors we read, were priests.

That sounds really fascinating. I've always wanted to know what the earlier (non-translated into English) versions of the Bible say on various things, but sadly my linguistic skills were never going to get me there!

Not quite the same thing but...the saying 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth' is often misinterpreted as being vengeful and merciless, but apparently the original meaning was a plea for proportionate punishment - only take appropriate measures, don't hang people for stealing a sheep etc. I find this sort of thing really interesting.

HammyHocky · Today 15:00

OneAmberFinch · Today 14:50

@JHound just to clarify the point about rootedness - for example if I put in effort I could learn about the history of Islamic art and symbolism and would be enriched whenever I travelled in Islamic countries etc.

However I would not feel that it was my personal cultural inheritance in the same way that I do with western/British culture - there is an additional layer of "this is where I come from, these are the stories of my people, these are the moral lessons my grandmother learned at her father's knee" etc.

Could you please say which aspects of British culture you are teaching them about?

CoffeeCantata · Today 15:03

HammyHocky · Today 14:31

I disagree, sorry. It wouldn’t have been impoverished at all, it may not have been as enriching but it wouldn’t have been impoverished. And the stories in the bible don’t change the beauty of some of the art or architecture or music at all, you don’t need to know that God was pleased when a man cuts up his wife after she was gang raped to enjoy these things. It isn’t necessary. In fact, if anything knowing the stories has turned me even further off the religion, so for me it has made the enjoyment of those thing less.

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We'll have to agree to disagree, Hammy!

Actually, thinking about it, I'm the sort of person who normally dislikes guided tours. If I go to an historic house etc, I will usually buy the guide book when I come out and go and read it at home. I know this sounds bonkers, but I just prefer it that way. Of course, I run the risk of kicking myself and wishing I'd known things while I was there, but I always do it that way...and maybe go back at some point.

I like to focus on what I'm looking at and not have my nose in a book. I want to experience the atmosphere, and with guides, they often blather about aspects that don't interest me and when I ask a question, they can't help.

Having said that, I would totally recommend the Highgate tour - those guides are superb and you would miss a lot which is now lost to us in terms of symbolism etc without them.

So I get that you can enjoy places without having all the information beforehand, but I'm not talking about highly specific details - such as when Titian painted that picture or what pigments he used...but I'm glad I know that when you see Jesus on a cross with certain people at the bottom, I know who those people are meant to be.

OneAmberFinch · Today 15:05

HammyHocky · Today 15:00

Could you please say which aspects of British culture you are teaching them about?

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Before I invest effort into this, can I ask if you believe there is such a thing as British culture?

MasterBeth · Today 15:08

CoffeeCantata · Today 13:49

Oh MasterBeth...are you for real??

The Bible is one long series of special effects, fgs. The creation story, Noah's Ark, Jacob's dream of the staircase to heaven with the angels going up and down, Moses and the burning bush, Moses going up Mt Sinai to receive the commandments, Moses leading the Israelites across the Red Sea which parted to allow them to cross, then closed and drowned the pursuing Egyptian army.

The massive oversized fruit in Canaan, the walls of Jericho falling down as if by magic, Elijah being swept up to heaven in a fiery chariot, the feast of Balshazzar, the boys in the furnace - and that's just the Old Testament.

I recommend The Children's Bible with some amazing over-the-top illustrations. Unputdownable!

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Yeah, but they're not special effects. They're narratives which might call for special effects if they were to be filmed. And described in a boring and archaic way:

And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

"He also made the stars " Yeah, compelling prose ...

(Also... Massive fruit? A burning bush? It's not exactly the Death Star, is it...)

Genuinely, Harry Potter and/or Game of Thrones have just as much magical spectacle.

Pretending the Bible is some great story is like people pretending Shakespeare is funny.

HammyHocky · Today 15:10

CoffeeCantata · Today 15:03

We'll have to agree to disagree, Hammy!

Actually, thinking about it, I'm the sort of person who normally dislikes guided tours. If I go to an historic house etc, I will usually buy the guide book when I come out and go and read it at home. I know this sounds bonkers, but I just prefer it that way. Of course, I run the risk of kicking myself and wishing I'd known things while I was there, but I always do it that way...and maybe go back at some point.

I like to focus on what I'm looking at and not have my nose in a book. I want to experience the atmosphere, and with guides, they often blather about aspects that don't interest me and when I ask a question, they can't help.

Having said that, I would totally recommend the Highgate tour - those guides are superb and you would miss a lot which is now lost to us in terms of symbolism etc without them.

So I get that you can enjoy places without having all the information beforehand, but I'm not talking about highly specific details - such as when Titian painted that picture or what pigments he used...but I'm glad I know that when you see Jesus on a cross with certain people at the bottom, I know who those people are meant to be.

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I thought after my last message that we likely won’t agree! I am not a guidebook person either but I went to a church in Essex last year and still have the little guidebook. I have gone back to it, utterly fascinating history. Haven’t been to Highgate, would like to. When I do I shall purchase a guidebook on your recommendation!

MasterBeth · Today 15:11

CoffeeCantata · Today 14:05

@MasterBeth

Thanks for that - I thought it was fascinating!

When I'm singing Messiah, and there's a chorus which is about the 'sons of Levi' making 'an offering in righteousness', I'll know the full story.

As I say, "homework."

What in that story did you find fascinating?

HammyHocky · Today 15:12

OneAmberFinch · Today 15:05

Before I invest effort into this, can I ask if you believe there is such a thing as British culture?

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Well, yes and no. Britain is made up of multiple countries and many counties, all of which are extremely different. I think we are made up of our rich and fascinating history, which has come from other parts of the world. So I don’t know that I could pinpoint a culture exactly, no. That was what I was wondering really, what exactly do you focus on? I also wondered because you suggested that maybe Islam wouldn’t be something worth investigating, but I think Islam is an important part of modern day Britain, so would it not potentially be part of any current culture we have? It’s an interesting one for sure.