to think a male pill would be one of the best things that could happen to society?

[ZoeCM]

A massive number of society's problems are caused by absent or bad fathers. Imagine if, before a baby was conceived, a man had to consciously think, "I want to have a child with this woman, so I'll come off the pill." Not just "I want to have sex, this woman is willing, and it'll be less enjoyable if we use a condom."

Of course, it wouldn't be a panacea. There would still sadly be men who choose to come off the pill but are bad fathers anyway, or decide once the reality of parenthood sets in that they can't be bothered. And there would also be men who just don't bother to take the pill properly and are then shocked when the woman gets pregnant. But on balance, if there were a way for men to have condom-free sex without potentially having to pay for a child for eighteen years afterwards, a lot of them would be downright religious in their use of it.

I'm genuinely intrigued to see if anyone disagrees with this. I can't see any downside.

@ToKittyornottoKitty I would not trust my husband to take it every day, and he himself would admit he would forget.
Secondly, the pill of course has a failure rate, even when taken absolutely correctly; it happened to me (and about two months after my husband's vasectomy as it goes and at 42!!)
For couples who absolutely do not want another pregnancy, by far the most reliable form of contraception is a vasectomy. Which also means hormonal contraceptives (which have many side effects and risk factors) can be stopped.

I agree.

I don’t think most men actually want to be fathers.

The argument against this of course is that its giving agency to men in terms of the choice about having a baby. Yes there are feckless fathers out there, God knows, but the system we have now is that men have zero rights in terms of a woman's pregnancy. If she wants to terminate no one cares if he has a different view, he doesn't even have a right to know. Even if its a planned pregnancy within a marriage, he has zero choice. If she wants to keep it and he doesn't want it, he is the worst for even thinking this thought and he is either financially burdened for life with a child he didn't want or he becomes an absent useless father who doesn't pay for his child. My point is that if we want men to start taking more responsibility for preventing pregnancy then we need to offset that against increasing men's rights re the unborn, and I honestly don't think many women would support this.

But we need to be realistic: some women do lie about being on the pill because they think a baby will fix an unhappy relationship, or they're worried they're running out of time, or they really want another baby and their partner doesn't. I'm looking at this in terms of what would be best for society, not in terms of individual judgment. A male pill would result in far fewer children being born in unstable relationships.

Giving men a say in abortion would be appalling. A man should not be allowed to force a woman to have an abortion, nor should he be allowed to forbid her from having one. How would the courts even enforce that - strap a woman down and perform an abortion against her will? Send her to prison if she chose an abortion herself? It's her body. And if a father is legally allowed to just walk away without financially supporting the child, that's extremely unfair - none of this is the child's fault.

Men currently have three options: use a condom, have a vasectomy, or don't have sex. Realistically, a lot of men are not going to be celibate for life, or never have sex without a condom, or decide to have a vasectomy before they even have sex for the very first time. A male pill would be a great way to reduce the number of children with reluctant fathers.

Men have choices now, vasectomy, abstinence, condoms. Why the fuck would any man take a pill that affects them when the actual effect of not doing so are minor. Its the fatherless children who suffer real harm not the men who father them.

I think the same thats why im confused why so many people dont think men would take it. Women want to be parents more than men, the vast majority of men dont want to be fathers imo.

@IAmWhoIAmm Because men can simply walk away.

Not from child maintenance. 18 years of having to pay for a kid they don’t want.

There’s no point us both repeating the same points. Some men can be trusted as much as women can with contraception. And a vasectomy isn’t right for everyone, so the option is a good once to have, it’s an option, not a sentence. You not trusting your own husband is your own issue. Many women set reminders, or inform their partner if they miss one, many men can do the same even if yours is hopeless. So for you this wouldn’t work and that’s fine, you do not represent every couple.

It would help. But, so would women taking the already existing pill

@ToKittyornottoKitty But I don't want another child. Neither does my husband. We could not take the risk of an unplanned pregnancy that occurs with a contraceptive pill.
I fell pregnant twice in my late 30s/early 40s with perfect use of the pill (but "fortunately" - for want of a better word - miscarried both times, although one of those times resulted in emergency surgery when one of my fallopian tubes ruptured). Consultant diagnosed hyperfertility.
Hence the vaesectomy.
It makes perfect sense for couples who have completed their family.

Nobody is disputing that vasectomy is a good idea for many, so I’m not sure why you keep repeating it.

@ToKittyornottoKitty Because ultimately it's a better opinion than any pill if men don't want children.

Yes but not for everyone, and also some men don’t want children now, but they might want them one day. It’s really not rocket science.

The waiting list for vasectomies where I live is 18 months! So it is definitely something lots of men are taking up!

I wouldn’t trust any man to take, or even remember to take a pill. And in the heat of the moment a man would probably take the risk.

'It can't be mine, I'm on the Pill'

'You have to get rid of it, I was on the Pill'

'You don't have to worry about me, I'm clean and I'm on the Pill'

'Why do you want to make sex so crap for me? I'm on the Pill. It's all about you, isn't it?'

'She'll never know about her, there's not going to be any accidental babies because I'm on the Pill. Funny how it burns a bit when I go for a pee, must have been a bit more active when I saw Bunnie last time, oh, well'

'Of course I want a baby, we just have to keep on trying. I know you're anxious because you're 37, but it'll be fine'

'You don't have to worry or have a Mirena/depot/whatever, I'm on the Pill and would never lie about this to trap you in this abusive relationship with a baby'

Really? Would you trust a man who says 'Its OK,I'm on the pill'. Men are so driven by their need for sex that they'd happily lie about it.

All of which can be diluted to £1/week if the feckless father goes on to have 10 more children.

Or 20

Or 30.

Really? Would you trust a man who says 'Its OK,I'm on the pill'. Men are so driven by their need for sex that they'd lie about it without a second thought.

Hmm I don’t know. I think it would have an interesting affect on ‘accidental’ pregnancies… and cause quite the population drop.

And how many men do you know like that?

They can still take the pill. It’s extra protection not instead of 🤦‍♀️

I've been on MN for 15 years (14 as other people 😎)