AIBU to not send her to preschool

[Misha1998]

trying to decide this. Please help! I hope it isn’t too long. Lot of things on my mind with it all.
YABU - send her in
YANBU - don’t send her

Context - my daughter has just turned three so one of youngest in her year. Very verbal/talks constantly questions etc, inquisitive etc but also introverted and shy and has never been in childcare just family, me her dad or grandparents, but mostly me, looking after her. I have a self employed product business so very flexible and we both do outdoor self employed work that the kids can be involved in and she loves doing it with us. She really enjoys climbing and outdoor play, books, exercises a lot, I think has a fairly fulfilled life we love her lots and while she is sensitive we have been able to be close to help her work through things. she has a 1yo younger sibling and another due in autumn. She has a place in preschool at her future primary school in September but only for afternoons (1-3).

REASONS I DONT WANT HER TO GO
The time she has a place for feels awkward for us as limits flexibility on what we can do for the day as it is slap bang in the middle and I worry we would end up spending more time at home or in our small town instead of getting out to the river, sea etc etc as we usually do. Makes the whole day a school oriented day in a way that it wouldn’t if just the morning. It is also younger toddler siblings nap time so drop off and pick up is logistically hard, especially with. Newborn too. And I personally think outdoor play and physical exercise is more important that the type of things they do at school (crafts, indoor play with toys (she does this at home anyway) and singing). She still is so young g most European countries don’t start school till much later. She has done a few sessions at the school (they do sessions for 2.5yo) and had very intense separation anxiety and says she doesn’t want to go. They said she was ok once inside but her face was so red and blotchy on collection it is clear she had been crying an awful lot and told me this too, and when she went to the sessions for 2y olds there either me or her dad had to stay with her the whole session she was that upset. I don’t want to loose her trust or make her “mask” or shut down and then we all think she is fine when she isn’t as that was what I did at school early years I remember it well it was horrible.

REASONS I THINK SHE SHOULD GO
i am going to be with a newborn and one year old and I think it would be good for her to go to school and do different activities and see children her own age. She knows and socialises with a lot of kids her own age currently but most of them will be in preschool most days full days come September so limited opportunities with them. She loves her younger sibling but of course it is also a limiting factor on what she can do, even more so once newborn comes. It would give me a break from the relentless talking if she was there for two hours a day! I am also worried about her starting reception and being a bit “behind” as all her peers are used to spending time away from mum and dad and she isn’t and it’ll make it all a lot harder for her and if we tackle the separation anxiety and school anxiety now it would make reception easier for her. I also think her having her own space I suppose, doing “big girl things” like painting and having the structure of going could be good for her and make her less likely to resent her younger siblings or be frustrated at home. School can give her something we can’t. We spend most of our days out the house as it is but over winter with a new baby it’ll be more difficult.

This, or a forest-school style outdoor nursery?

I think it sounds like it would be a good idea to get her used to being away from you before starting school, but (assuming you can find a place) it really doesn't have to be a preschool if the ethos and the hours don't work for you.

@MischanceI think the need to prepare to go to school in particular is because unlike starting nursery or pre-school the hours are set once they start school. So they go from being at home all the time with a parent to suddenly spending 6 hours (minimum) away from their parent every day, and on top of that there are the rules, the people, the environment etc which are are totally different and unlike anything they’ve encountered before. I certainly built the pre-school/nursery days up slowly before both mine started school, and I’m glad I did as I know they both would have struggled going from being with me all the time to suddenly not having me around at all for 6 hours each day.

@Mischance I feel like you’re shouting the loudest in the room because you want to be heard. But really; the consensus is yes, send her to nursery / pre school, even for a day. Like I said, it teaches them valuable lessons.

And you ARE doing your child a disservice if you think they spend every waking hour with the caregiver; the mother, father, and then aged 5 shipped off to school for the majority of the week for the next 10 years, and you don’t prepare them. It’s unfair. One day out of 7, sending them to nursery to prepare them for their future and help gain valuable experiences is helping them. It’s not just about what you want.

Just because you don’t agree; that’s OK, but you really don’t have to keep shoving your unsolicited opinions down everyone’s throat.

It would be good for her in some ways. I remember my first day at primary school wondering why the kids were crying. I knew my mum would come back and that place was awesome it had plasticine. If i hadn’t gone to playgroup I might have been one of the ones crying.

Op does she mix with other DC at things like toddler groups ?

I agree ,ops DC is in a very rare position where she has the luxury of being at home with mum and her siblings and not in an instution being instituionalised.

Op I would look into local toddler groups the type that run in church halls and cost very little. They often run to a loose schedule like a craft and books then snacks / signing time (where they sit and sing ( then climb on toys ).
They will be a gentler intro to rules and you would be there.

I would also look at the early years frame work and gently introduce some concepts as well.

They do all this at toddler groups !

I think it is a fallacy that small children not in nursery or preschool are devoid of opportunities to socialise with other children, or to learn co-operate. They live in families and have cousins; they go to mum and toddler groups etc.
This fad for pushing children on from one stage to the next as speedily as possible is not healthy.
Children fall by the wayside, get stressed and do not have time to simply be who they are at each stage of development because we are always pushing them on relentlessly as if there is some virtue to getting through the stages early. There isn't. They will never get the chance to look at the world with wonder again before this is crushed out of them.

They do not have to be learning all the time ... they are good at exploring and following their natural curiosity ..... if they are given the chance.

The stress that children are out under is quite simply wrong. We can see what it does to them if we look at so many struggling teens who are feeling undervalued and join the endless waiting list for CAMHS.

Another reason I think I didn't feel it was great for DD1 as expected - the school had an entire first term of half days to settle in - 6 weeks of half days switching morning and afternnon nightmare for everyone- by time youngest started it had been cut down to two weeks.

I wonder now if many more schools go in 6 hours a day straight away.

I do think younger two being just a bit older and a school one meant they got more out of it - but they all sat in still circle time at groups - shared as they had siblings and did phonics with me anyway. The big thing for younger two was loss of kids older or their ages when out and about - as DD1 was so young in year - late August - we didn't see that with time we had.

You could try it and see - she may be more ready than you realise - or you can look for another pre-school later in year so she gets a bit of time away from you for shorter periods before school but not as quick as with the school pre-school.

Incidentally some of the kids crying in first weeks had been to nursury and pre-school - and some of the kids least able to sit still and wait in groups had also been to nursury environments. I don't think there are any absolutes with kids. It's a parental judgement call - long term not sure it means much either way.

Se did nursery that did 3 hour morning sessions each day

OP, you can absolutely do what you want. Afternoons would not have worked for me. I sent mine to a lovely play based preschool at 2.5 but in retrospect wished I had waited until she was 3 as I think it would have been an easier transition. I only did 3 mornings a week anyway as I wanted to spend time with her myself.

I am an early years teacher by profession and I think there might be some benefit to her going somewhere without a family member before school but I refute this idea that she'll be behind/missing something vital. If the worst came to the worst, she'd get used to bring away from you in the first few weeks of school. We have plenty of kids who find the transition into school a challenge at first and they have pretty much all been to some childcare setting due to the price of property and free childcare hours, so preschool doesn't cure it, and it often settles very quickly, although I know how tough it is for parents thinking their child is unhappy. Often they're not once the parent has gone.

Also, being ready for school in my opinion involves being able to communicate well, feel confident to try new things, be able to get dressed and use the toilet independently not phonics/early maths. Ignore anyone who suggests otherwise. We'll teach her all of that.

Could you see how you feel after Christmas? There would still be six months for her to potentially go to some sort of provision then to get used to being without you and she might feel ready then. She'll be at school for a lot of years and your life will be fixed around a school run. Enjoy this time while you can.

Is there any possibility of dipping a toe in independent activities between now and then? My DD did solo swimming lessons at 3 and ballet. It was only for a very short time but a step in the right direction.

She sounds great and her life sounds like a brilliant start. Although we now see preschool education as a must that is more about enabling everyone to work and pay tax. Like many government and education policies, it isn't centred around the development of children. It does definitely benefit children from homes that lack language, outdoor play, warm interactions, other children and challenging circumstances but you would find it very hard to show any benefit of preschool for children with the sort of home environment you describe.

When I was working for CAMHS and I was sent a "problem" child, I would ignore the label and ask about the settings in which they were spending their day .... the problem was nearly always In the setting.
These settings have gradually become more problematical as the rigidity and narrow curricula have set in, along with targets and testing.
Start with the child and who they really are was my rule.
Problem settings create problem child labels.

She sounds great and her life sounds like a brilliant start. Although we now see preschool education as a must that is more about enabling everyone to work and pay tax. Like many government and education policies, it isn't centred around the development of children. It does definitely benefit children from homes that lack language, outdoor play, warm interactions, other children and challenging circumstances but you would find it very hard to show any benefit of preschool for children with the sort of home environment you describe.

Spot on!

I feel we are going off the topic of this post slightly, sorry OP! I also feel we aren’t very far away in our opinions, I might just be expressing mine poorly.

You only mention the children who are not ready to read age 3, and the harm to their self-esteem. Not the boost to a child’s self confidence who is ready and can do it. They might be dreadful at running about and feel awful that they are slower than their friends. The 10 min phonics lesson might be their chance to shine. I have taught several children for whom this is definitely true!

Does your daughter enjoy the books she is reading? She has learnt to read early by some metrics. In some countries she wouldn’t have even started learning yet. Can you truly say there is no benefit? I know my son loves going to the library and picking up a book to read. Or coming home after a big day out and curling up on the sofa. Are these not good experiences?

The benefit doesn’t have to be “being a better reader.” It’s not a competition. The benefit can be that the child enjoys it! And some children (not all) do enjoy being able to read and the freedom that gives them. My son frequently picks up a book instead of toys, totally his choice.

To me, it’s a bit like riding a bike. I learnt age 4. My partner learnt age 7. Does it make a difference now we are adults? Of course not! Does it means those bike rides i had between the ages of 4-7 were a waste of time? Definitely not, I enjoyed them a lot!

I guess I just don’t see why reading is different. For a child who is able to do it, learning to read is exciting! Not a chore. Similar to riding a bike but with fewer scraped knees!

From your arguments alone, I would send her. The list of advantages to going are persuasive and sensible. The arguments not to go are a bit clutching at straws. For example, countries who start school later also have these kids in kindergarten and high rates of working women. She's not particularly young, 1/6 of kids will be younger in her year and many started nursery under one. There are arguments about what suits you and siblings rather than her and the separation anxiety is a reason to go now rather than deal with it at school. Pathologising her adjusting to new things as masking is what persuaded me, you're trying to be dramatic and forgetting that this is a normal childhood experience everyone has.

If it's a nice day for the beach, keep her off and go and put her on the waiting list for morning sessions. Otherwise, stop over thinking, it sounds a lovely way for her to grow a little and make friends.

I sent my twins to a Montessori nursery and it was much more flexible than school nursery. They went 2 days a week when they were 3 from 9-3 but since it was not school I could not take them if we had something better to do. Also still had full days a week to do fun stuff. And I had 2 days to recover from twins, do the shopping, and start a business.

I haven't read the full thread but as somebody who sent my ds to pre- school before I think he was ready, I massively regret it with hindsight. Children don't need to start learning bloody phonics at this age. They need to play. Like you, he was my first and I followed the norm but I wish I hadn't. If I could go back, I would do things differently.

I firmly believe that preschool etc are there to benefit capitalism and not the needs of the child. It's to free mums up and get them back to work. I know many people have no choice and they will tell you it's fine because they did it. But if you have a choice I wouldn't.

Catching up on this all after the kids are now asleep - wow I am amazed by how many people have share their experiences and thoughts on our situation and how different each one really is, I am so grateful to you all!

These are my immediate thoughts of how to move forward right now:

1. I will write to the school asking for her to be put on wait list for morning sessions
2. I spoke to a childminder today at a toddler group. Me and my daughter are familiar with her already, The childminder has two days with her available from September, and that she does settling in periods. I think my daughter would really enjoy being here so we might go for this (childminder can do pick up from preschool if my daughter does get a morning slot) - this gives her a chance for separation however I worry it would become another 'family' for her really and not prepare her emotionally for school is this fair to say??
3. she does gymnastics class at the moment but now that she is three she is old enough to do the class where parents do not stay, and so I am enrolling her for that in September, and possibly another class

this forum really helped me think and here are a few points id like to address (whilst I have read every comment I cant respond to every one! I have used bold to make it easier to pick out points and read, as I appreciate this is long):

1. about 'readiness' - this was mostly a philosophical question, however a poster did mention my not considering her 'readiness' for potty or reading. However I consider (and observe) children are 'ready' to learn pottying from birth. With reading, I dont force anything but we do stories every evening together and we point out different letters as we read, and play games such as finding the latter that starts her name or her sister name etc when out and about. she wants to do this and isnt forced, and doesnt take away from her play, it is play to her!
2. I can see that preschool can provide some benefits, however I wonder if those benefits can be achieved in a less costly way. I have to ask what is it for, I dont think art and craft is very important and I also doubt the importance of who was there in preschool or not (from a social perspective) come reception. reception is supposed to be school introduction year so why would she need an introducion to the introduction?
3. I am worried about winter and a new baby hitting both at once, as well as most of her peers being less available, and finding myself feeling a bit overwhelmed and being less able to meet my eldest's needs, even if things are great now
4. due to the nature of our seasonalagricultural work my partner will be significantly more available for childcare after the summer, until April/may time, which will make a big difference as he can take the eldest two places after the baby comes.
5. I am interested in the ideas raised about deferring a year, but you do have to have a 'good reason' to round here and not sure if it would be ok or reliable route. We are in Wales and school is totally 'learn by play' until year three so year one is not quite 'now sit down and stay still'.
6. I am tempted to defer school setting until reception, then do half time at reception (which I know this school has allowed for others). then full time the term after she turns 5 (sept term of year one)
7. My daughter sees children her own age most days of the week, today it was toddler group, horses with a friend and then park with two other families. She is social and interactive with other children and gets plenty of opportunity to, kids both younger and older and same age, and she really is best friends with her 1yo sibling. What I am worried about is many more of them will be much more 'full time' in childcare/less available during their preschool year, and so it is more future issues I am pre emoting rather than worrying she isnt fulfilled now, as I think she does have a good life currently.
8. She initiates play with other children, creates imaginary games, enjoys playing with them. All this was making me think maybe the separation anxiety would improve by itself since she isnt 'antisocial' she just is shy and also very young still
9. for those saying I am projecting my own anxieties, I did have a hard start to primary myself (no memory of preschooling years) and of course I want to learn from this experience for my daughter. I also do want to spend time with her, as she is my 3 year old daughter!
10. Having said this I will not be homeschooling as I also need to earn more money and dont think I could provide a good homeschool experience and worry I would find it a bit much and deprive her of school/peer experiences
11. She can be anxious however it is not true that she isnt pushed. she has been pushed to learn lots of physical skills that scared her, and she has overcome many challenges, and she describes herself as someone who "who can do hard things" - her words! Having said this she hasnt been pushed into separation beyond family, as I am not sure if is beneficial at such a young age. I havent pushed her to go without food for 24 hours either - since some things are not beneficial to push! This is one of my central issues or worries. I am trying to figure out what is important
12. She does spend time with people other than me, she was with had dad 7hrs a few days ago and my mum full day a few days before that
13. Gosh the poster saying I have made multiple threads about my daughter and her having ADHD or whatever that is not me, I did make one post about her when I was really struggling with her sleep but that was over two years ago!! you've got the wrong person.....

Goodness ... I am glad you have been brave enough to say this because that's how it is. Policies are geared up to having both parents at work and children are just made to fit in with this by going to settings that are not suited to their age.

The irony of course is that all this spending power that is generated goes in taxes that are spent (but are insufficient) to fund the mental health crisis in teenagers and young adults and the extra teachers and TAs to pick up the needs of those children who cannot cope with the system.

why would she need an introducion to the introduction?

This is exactly the point I have been trying to make and I am glad the OP has picked it up.

@Misha1998 Sorry, one poster very similar to yours posting multiple threads. My apologies!

Keep her home, you don’t get these years back if you don’t absolutely have to send her, enjoy raising her in nature, also some playgroups to meet other kids her ages once a week? So she’s socialising

we are a very outdoorsy family but I sadly had to put my children into pre school at age 3, but every chance we get were outdoors rain or shine!

Keep her at home. Have you considered home education? I think it would be really good fit for your family.

The European argument is bollocks. They might not start school with desks until 6, but most do pretty much mandatory preschool from 3.