Help end medical misogyny. Sign our petition.

Help end medical misogyny.
Sign our petition.

Sign the petition

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to wonder if anti-English feeling is mostly about sport

515 replies

Batsratscatsgnats · Yesterday 22:46

If you support anyone but England in football or other sports do you dislike English people generally or is it just in sports?

OP posts:
AeriatedAnna · Today 13:43

Years ago I was shocked when someone called me an English bastard whilst in Scotland. When I asked why, they said it was to do with soccer hooliganism. Apparently, when it was Scottish causing trouble the media would say it was Scottish. However, when it was the English, the media would say they were British. What that had to do with me I do not know.

I find that Irish, Scottish, & welsh always seem to be proud of their nationality, like constant saying that they’re Irish or whatever, like we wouldn’t know. Yet the English don’t seem to do that. Plus they seem to stick together, none of them would ever back England. But the English don’t seem to stick together. They back anyone but each other.

Dontlletmedownbruce · Today 13:47

MyMilchick · Today 12:50

I'm Irish and it's more jokey here mostly imo, I don't dislike English people at all. I would definitely shout for you lot against the USA 😂

I agree it's mostly childish and jokey. The irony is most soccer fans here follow English league football. I've seen die hard Liverpool or Arsenal fans idolise a player but not when that player plays for England. Mostly it's just a silly piss take. Of course there are some nasty folk who take it to a different level. Also the English fans have a very bad reputation especially abroad. They tend to act obnoxiously towards other team supporters which again makes no sense cos they are the same fans of the league matches that international fans support

RigsbysCat · Today 13:50

DontBuyAnotherBook · Today 13:32

Yet apparently it is just banter and no hate.

I never claimed that!

And of course no hate at all displayed in current day England 🙄

JHound · Today 13:50

Worldinyourhands · Today 13:34

The anti-English feeling in Scotland is stronger than any English person would ever believe. Culturally, they really hate you guys - and that hatred is totally acceptable in a way that any other kind of prejudice wouldn't be.

The existence of racism and xenophobia will never, ever, ever shock me. Not even in Scotland.

lightseeker · Today 13:52

People who base their sentiments about a whole nation based on football are a bit dim really. Most people don't give a hoot about football and only watch it if there's a World Cup final. Even then, they might just watch the last 10 mins. That's what I do. Anything can happen when a ball is being kicked around left, right and centre.

The only people I've ever heard going on about 1966 are older people of the type who go on about their memories of the war , etc etc. Or the Beatles! I mean I'm quite old but I wasn't around in the 60s!

In all countries people are moaners, and the Scottish definitely keep up in that department. I just think there are so many people in England - particularly London - compared to Scotland or Wales, it's not surprising people in those nations feel less represented in the media. I'm sure many people in the Outer Hebrides feel under -represented compared to those living in Glasgow or Edinburgh.

MyMilchick · Today 13:56

Dontlletmedownbruce · Today 13:47

I agree it's mostly childish and jokey. The irony is most soccer fans here follow English league football. I've seen die hard Liverpool or Arsenal fans idolise a player but not when that player plays for England. Mostly it's just a silly piss take. Of course there are some nasty folk who take it to a different level. Also the English fans have a very bad reputation especially abroad. They tend to act obnoxiously towards other team supporters which again makes no sense cos they are the same fans of the league matches that international fans support

I think we Irish can partly claim Liverpool as our own anyway though 😜

Promisingtree · Today 14:02

Worldinyourhands · Today 13:34

The anti-English feeling in Scotland is stronger than any English person would ever believe. Culturally, they really hate you guys - and that hatred is totally acceptable in a way that any other kind of prejudice wouldn't be.

Yeah I don't think that's true - and I'm not sure you can claim a hive mind for all Scottish people "they really hate you"

Differentforgirls · Today 14:04

Nortonhou · Today 13:42

Well not everyone does but about half of SNP supporters must do it through utter loathing of England. There’s no other coherent reason why such dire, corrupt, sleazy little politicians are voted for time and again.

Vote them out then?

lightseeker · Today 14:08

What I can understand though, is how pissed off many people in Scotland must be about the Brexit vote (even though a sizeable number of Scottish voted Brexit as well - why?) The thing is, London, the global city of 10 million people, overwhelmingly voted Remain. In fact the most definitive Remain vote came from the London boroughs. So don't be mad at London - be mad a places like Lincolnshire. Also, Wales voted Leave overall - god only knows what was going on there, but here we are.

Persephonia1966 · Today 14:12

IcedPurple · Today 13:43

And yet nearly a million Scots live in England. Many English people do the reverse.

And Scottish and English people live, work, form friendships, get married together all the time.

Sure, there are resentments, which come out more at certain times, but your post is a massive exaggeration. You're not American by any chance?

Edited

🎵 🎵 🎵 Stirring up trouble, stirring up trouble. Busy on the internet stirring up trouble 🎵 🎵 🎵 🎵

Nolongera · Today 14:12

DontBuyAnotherBook · Today 13:07

It is so obviously about hate here and not banter here with you. You can't even give a grudging England did well.

All that bitterness might explain their short life spans and love of skag.

MrsPapillon · Today 14:14

I think we need to cut the Scots some slack. I’m an Evertonian so I understand how it feels to live in the shadow of a better performing team and to constantly have your nose rubbed in it. It’s not a nice feeling and I’m an insufferable cow in response to ubiquitous red post-derby gloating!

Promisingtree · Today 14:14

Yes the majority of people in Scotland take heroin 😂🤣

Persephonia1966 · Today 14:15

lightseeker · Today 14:08

What I can understand though, is how pissed off many people in Scotland must be about the Brexit vote (even though a sizeable number of Scottish voted Brexit as well - why?) The thing is, London, the global city of 10 million people, overwhelmingly voted Remain. In fact the most definitive Remain vote came from the London boroughs. So don't be mad at London - be mad a places like Lincolnshire. Also, Wales voted Leave overall - god only knows what was going on there, but here we are.

People in England and Wales mad at Londoncentrism voted for Brexit. Scottish people mad at Brexit are now cross with the people of England and Wales. I guess people in rural Scotland/the Orkney Isles can be mad at Edinburgh.
This is a simplification. But basically some people want everyone mad at everybody. Unfortunately those people have considerable resources so create a lot of noise.

Worldinyourhands · Today 14:16

Differentforgirls · Today 13:36

How would you know?

I grew up there from a baby and lived there for the first 20 years but I'm neither English nor Scottish. When you grow up amongst it, it's both shocking and normalised. 'Anyone but the English'. It being totally acceptable to hate the English and make anti-English comments, even in school. I don't claim it's everyone but it is a significant, deeply engrained part of the culture and it's not lighthearted or good natured.

Nortonhou · Today 14:18

Differentforgirls · Today 14:04

Vote them out then?

Believe me I’ve never voted for them!

Differentforgirls · Today 14:19

PhaedraTwo · Today 13:28

Oh whatever - some Scottish cup. Hearts were in with a chance of winning it for the first time in ages. Celtic fans invaded the pitch. Hearts team had to leave without even changing.

They had a chance of winning it?

"Fans streamed out of the stands at Celtic Park and some confronted Hearts players after Callum Osmand ran clear to make it 3-1 to Celtic in the 98th minute."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4g9ww4p09do

They were 2-1 down before Callum's goal. Which meant they were beat 3-1.

So they were getting beat after 90 minutes and then got beaten by yet an other goal, so where was the chance of winning it?

Fans ran on to the pitch at Celtic Park after Callum Osmand scored

Celtic apologise to Hearts over pitch invasion

Celtic have apologised to Hearts and say they will co-operate with a police investigation into the pitch invasion at the conclusion of the clubs' thrilling Scottish Premiership title decider.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4g9ww4p09do

Nortonhou · Today 14:20

Worldinyourhands · Today 14:16

I grew up there from a baby and lived there for the first 20 years but I'm neither English nor Scottish. When you grow up amongst it, it's both shocking and normalised. 'Anyone but the English'. It being totally acceptable to hate the English and make anti-English comments, even in school. I don't claim it's everyone but it is a significant, deeply engrained part of the culture and it's not lighthearted or good natured.

But they’ll tell you it’s ‘banter’ and you’re a misery guts for not laughing along and their bigoted / racist comments.

But yeh, ‘civic and joyous’!

Differentforgirls · Today 14:20

Nortonhou · Today 14:18

Believe me I’ve never voted for them!

I would never have guessed, however you haven't voted them out either. I vote for them 😁

Differentforgirls · Today 14:21

MrsPapillon · Today 14:14

I think we need to cut the Scots some slack. I’m an Evertonian so I understand how it feels to live in the shadow of a better performing team and to constantly have your nose rubbed in it. It’s not a nice feeling and I’m an insufferable cow in response to ubiquitous red post-derby gloating!

God, I liked your posts up to this one!

Differentforgirls · Today 14:22

Nolongera · Today 14:12

All that bitterness might explain their short life spans and love of skag.

What's "skag"?

Differentforgirls · Today 14:25

Worldinyourhands · Today 14:16

I grew up there from a baby and lived there for the first 20 years but I'm neither English nor Scottish. When you grow up amongst it, it's both shocking and normalised. 'Anyone but the English'. It being totally acceptable to hate the English and make anti-English comments, even in school. I don't claim it's everyone but it is a significant, deeply engrained part of the culture and it's not lighthearted or good natured.

Where did you live because I have lived here since the day I was born and we never actually mention "the English".

Mamai100 · Today 14:27

Happyhappyzoozoo · Today 00:32

I suggest you read about the Scottish clearances and the Irish famine for a start. Very much English colonialism.

Obviously there’s no point in holding historical events against modern individuals but when the legacy if these events can still be seen and felt it makes it difficult to get on board with cheering and clapping for an english team.

This.
I have a wonderful English mother, wonderful English extended family but I just can't clap for the England team.
I find it difficult to articulate why exactly, but maybe some of it is growing up as a Catholic during the troubles in Belfast. The treatment by the British soldiers was barbaric in some instances.

CountryCob · Today 14:27

The 75% vote here seems to think the UK's international unpopularity is not about football and more to do with the enslaving, asset stripping, culture crushing empire which was not that long ago. Eurovision doesn't go well for the UK either, even before brexit. This goes well past western football. The UK damaged many continents. Wars are going on now that are routed in the destabilising affect of cutting up countrues. The UK is more unpopular in other continents than the US. Many economies have never recovered from the asset striping that made the victorians rich, built major buildings still standing in UK cities. So no I don't think its bitterness about football or anything to do with fan behaviour.

WilfredsPies · Today 14:30

JHound · Today 00:20

You talked about the coverage by national media. A far bigger global sporting event is going to get more coverage. Why would that be surprising?

That’s kind of the point. The national media takes no notice of the fact that Scotland, Wales and NI are different countries. If British media was concentrating largely on the sporting achievements of Albania, with a tiny little paragraph on page 8 mentioning that England also played a little game of something, somewhere else, after a couple of decades of hearing all about Albania you’d probably start thinking to yourself ‘why are we only hearing about Albania? We aren’t Albania, we don’t give a shit about Albania. We are our own separate country, we want to hear about England’. Well that’s how Wales, Scotland and NI feel. Everything is England centric.

Added to that is what appears like arrogance. We might think the lyrics of ‘it’s coming home’ point to a subtle self deprecation and acknowledgment that it’s not really coming home, but that’s not how it appears to the rest of Britain, who are also being forced to listen to the bloody thing for weeks on end. It looks like supreme arrogance. And when we do win something, we never stop talking about it.

It’s my experience that, as individuals, they do like us. But as a nation, we behave like they are our younger siblings, who don’t really know what’s best for them, so they just need to be quiet and let us take charge because we’re the boss. And, funnily enough, that attitude has rubbed them up the wrong way.