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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to wonder if anti-English feeling is mostly about sport

515 replies

Batsratscatsgnats · Yesterday 22:46

If you support anyone but England in football or other sports do you dislike English people generally or is it just in sports?

OP posts:
ADogRocketShip · Today 14:31

Not a football fan and quite frankly give zero shites about all this.

But I have 2 sons born in England. DH was born in Scotland and moved to England as a baby with whole family. He's now 40. Both our sons support England and Scotland, and they love Scottish Prem League.

I find it bizzare frankly that DH is very 'anyone but England' in internationals. We all sat and watched and cheered Scotland on until they went out (even me, with zero interest and zero Scottish connection!). But he simply refuses to cheer on England, and actively supports the other side despite knowing his little boys would be sad. He bangs on about ABE to whoever will listen, moans about our friends or neighbours that talk about supporting England (I mean, we live in England so not too surprising people would be talking about England matches). I find that a bit petty and childish tbh.

JHound · Today 14:31

WilfredsPies · Today 14:30

That’s kind of the point. The national media takes no notice of the fact that Scotland, Wales and NI are different countries. If British media was concentrating largely on the sporting achievements of Albania, with a tiny little paragraph on page 8 mentioning that England also played a little game of something, somewhere else, after a couple of decades of hearing all about Albania you’d probably start thinking to yourself ‘why are we only hearing about Albania? We aren’t Albania, we don’t give a shit about Albania. We are our own separate country, we want to hear about England’. Well that’s how Wales, Scotland and NI feel. Everything is England centric.

Added to that is what appears like arrogance. We might think the lyrics of ‘it’s coming home’ point to a subtle self deprecation and acknowledgment that it’s not really coming home, but that’s not how it appears to the rest of Britain, who are also being forced to listen to the bloody thing for weeks on end. It looks like supreme arrogance. And when we do win something, we never stop talking about it.

It’s my experience that, as individuals, they do like us. But as a nation, we behave like they are our younger siblings, who don’t really know what’s best for them, so they just need to be quiet and let us take charge because we’re the boss. And, funnily enough, that attitude has rubbed them up the wrong way.

I’m talking specifically about the world cup. I don’t think it’s surprising that the World Cup has received more coverage than the Rugby, irrespective of who is playing. It’s a far bigger event.

JHound · Today 14:33

lightseeker · Today 14:08

What I can understand though, is how pissed off many people in Scotland must be about the Brexit vote (even though a sizeable number of Scottish voted Brexit as well - why?) The thing is, London, the global city of 10 million people, overwhelmingly voted Remain. In fact the most definitive Remain vote came from the London boroughs. So don't be mad at London - be mad a places like Lincolnshire. Also, Wales voted Leave overall - god only knows what was going on there, but here we are.

Listening to the whining about the voting is tiresome. It’s almost as though people don’t understand how voting works.

PhaedraTwo · Today 14:35

Differentforgirls · Today 14:19

They had a chance of winning it?

"Fans streamed out of the stands at Celtic Park and some confronted Hearts players after Callum Osmand ran clear to make it 3-1 to Celtic in the 98th minute."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c4g9ww4p09do

They were 2-1 down before Callum's goal. Which meant they were beat 3-1.

So they were getting beat after 90 minutes and then got beaten by yet an other goal, so where was the chance of winning it?

Even I, as someone who has no interest in football, knows that the "chance of winning" whatever league or Cup had been all over the Scottish media in the week's running up to the game.

"Chance of winning it"clearly meant the trophy, which Hearts had been in the running for. But thank you for the links to the reports about the appalling behaviour of the Celtic fans.

PhaedraTwo · Today 14:37

JHound · Today 14:33

Listening to the whining about the voting is tiresome. It’s almost as though people don’t understand how voting works.

It's very tiresome. I voted Remain but the complaints from some Remainers are as tedious and tiresome as the complaints from the separatists about losing that vote.

JHound · Today 14:37

CountryCob · Today 14:27

The 75% vote here seems to think the UK's international unpopularity is not about football and more to do with the enslaving, asset stripping, culture crushing empire which was not that long ago. Eurovision doesn't go well for the UK either, even before brexit. This goes well past western football. The UK damaged many continents. Wars are going on now that are routed in the destabilising affect of cutting up countrues. The UK is more unpopular in other continents than the US. Many economies have never recovered from the asset striping that made the victorians rich, built major buildings still standing in UK cities. So no I don't think its bitterness about football or anything to do with fan behaviour.

But the post is not about the UK but England. I agree with you in part but it shows how thick many are in conflating “Britain” and “England”.

They will bemoan the British Empire but still support the Scottish sporting teams. Makes not one jot of sense but xenophobia rarely does.

WilfredsPies · Today 14:40

JHound · Today 14:31

I’m talking specifically about the world cup. I don’t think it’s surprising that the World Cup has received more coverage than the Rugby, irrespective of who is playing. It’s a far bigger event.

It’s the equivalent of BBC1 broadcasting hourly coverage of the World Baseball Series in the UK. A big event, but not bigger than the sporting events actually happening in the UK.

Even before Scotland got knocked out, what was the coverage on the matches? The tactical replays? The worry over the timing of games and how the altitude would affect the players? No, it was all about the fans. And that’s great; they made a fantastic impression. But it was a powder puff coverage. Same with the Welsh fans last time they qualified.

JHound · Today 14:44

WilfredsPies · Today 14:40

It’s the equivalent of BBC1 broadcasting hourly coverage of the World Baseball Series in the UK. A big event, but not bigger than the sporting events actually happening in the UK.

Even before Scotland got knocked out, what was the coverage on the matches? The tactical replays? The worry over the timing of games and how the altitude would affect the players? No, it was all about the fans. And that’s great; they made a fantastic impression. But it was a powder puff coverage. Same with the Welsh fans last time they qualified.

Well it’s not is it. The World Baseball series is not a global competition on the level of the World Cup. Possibly only the Olympics compares.

It’s just claiming an English focus because more news time has been dedicated to a much much much much much much much bigger sporting event is weird.

I would expect greater coverage of the world cup even with no British teams still left in it than I would a local netball competition in my home town.

CountryCob · Today 14:46

JHound · Today 14:37

But the post is not about the UK but England. I agree with you in part but it shows how thick many are in conflating “Britain” and “England”.

They will bemoan the British Empire but still support the Scottish sporting teams. Makes not one jot of sense but xenophobia rarely does.

I think for many British does mean English, I am not sure that is being thick as such England is in charge of Britain in many ways and they do not care to think too deeply about how the UK organises itself. The empire is something to be ashamed of and often I don't think England or Britain are being honest about their affect on the world culturally. Xenophobia is the generalised dislike of foreigners. This is much more specific and based on past national behaviour.

Differentforgirls · Today 14:47

PhaedraTwo · Today 14:35

Even I, as someone who has no interest in football, knows that the "chance of winning" whatever league or Cup had been all over the Scottish media in the week's running up to the game.

"Chance of winning it"clearly meant the trophy, which Hearts had been in the running for. But thank you for the links to the reports about the appalling behaviour of the Celtic fans.

Which the club apologised for. But. They had no chance of winning it. Not a single chance.

OwlBeThere · Today 14:50

TheCurious0range · Today 04:02

But we all hate Farage, and tbh a lot of questions were asked about the decisions Boris made, there were also lots of comparisons to decisions made by other prime ministers. The history I get, but does it really require taking out on a sports team in the current day? It's like hating the Germans because of WW2, interestingly it's the Farage mob that holds those kinds of views

It’s not like hating the germans because of ww2 as that is over and doesn’t happen anymore. The superiority complex of The English government and media still
exists. Questioning Boris’s choices and questioning why Wales are not abiding by the same rules as England as the English decisions are seen as the default are not at all the same thing. Also many people do not hate Farage and he’s far from alone in that attitude toward the welsh language.
As i say the history and issues are complicated.

WilfredsPies · Today 14:57

JHound · Today 14:44

Well it’s not is it. The World Baseball series is not a global competition on the level of the World Cup. Possibly only the Olympics compares.

It’s just claiming an English focus because more news time has been dedicated to a much much much much much much much bigger sporting event is weird.

I would expect greater coverage of the world cup even with no British teams still left in it than I would a local netball competition in my home town.

It’s not comparable to you. It is very much comparable to the other countries that make up the UK.

It’s just claiming an English focus because more news time has been dedicated to a much much much much much much much bigger sporting event is weird Not when the same Scottish, Welsh and NI focus isn’t applied to events they qualify for. I thought it was all an over reaction as well, and that of course it was all equal. And then I married a Welshman. And it’s not equal. It’s England centric and they’re bored of it.

And comparing a local netball competition in your home town to a national rugby game, in a country that puts rugby far, far higher than football (even if it is the World Cup), is the perfect example of the arrogance I mentioned earlier.

KnickerlessParsons · Today 15:01

Several hundred years of being repressed does tend to turn you off the oppressing nation, along with it's sports teams :)

KnickerlessParsons · Today 15:03

I wonder if the government would have given the nation's pubs licence to open until 5am if it were Wales playing a football match instead of England.

Nolongera · Today 15:04

KnickerlessParsons · Today 15:03

I wonder if the government would have given the nation's pubs licence to open until 5am if it were Wales playing a football match instead of England.

It's devolved, so it would be up to the Wesh government. So, wonder no more.

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