Trans widow and feel so much pain for her

[Hotandbithered]

I know this is not actually my grief but DH has a good friend who we have known throughout our marriage, let’s call him Steve.

Steve was married to Jess and had two children.

We spent a lot of time with them over the years. Camping trips, dinners, bbqs, birthdays. Steve was your classic sort of male really. He was quite attractive, funny, polite, well educated and both he and Jess very successful, had a beautiful home.

Anyway getting to the point. Almost out of the blue (to us at least), a few years ago Steve began transitioning. He is not short of money and has had facial surgery multiple times, paid for himself. He is extremely supportive of the trans community and recognises he is lucky he can access this sort of treatment.

Jess stayed with him through this, went to the appointments, talked to their kids about what this meant (primary age) and tried to stick in the marriage. It’s now broken down and they are doing their best to be great co parents to their children.

Jess’ grief is immeasurable. This couple always seemed so in love, so respectful of one another. She says she feels like her husband has died yet she has to experience this new person in his place, like he’s been stolen from her. I too have felt this obviously to a much lesser degree, but its truly life changing to even be affected by it even a little bit.

I should add that I have no strong views on what or who people choose to be but I suppose I am shocked that a person can live a lie for so long and especially put their children through it? DH has tried to be supportive but I think struggles more with Steve’s new interests more than anything, as in they don’t have much to talk about anymore as Steve is consumed by this (I suppose understandably) and his focus on what makes him a woman rather than anything else.

I don’t know what I am asking really. Just feel grief for Jess and for DH and wonder if others have been through similar how they navigated it.

I think youre making this too much about you and need to focus on your friend. Who understandably, even if shes supportive of trans rights generally, has lost the man she loves.

This reads far too much.. its not about me BUT...

And you were correct its not about you. But I do wish your friends the best as they all move on

What do you think intersex means?

Aye nib out love.

I believe mostly science and data when it comes to meanings, so Intersex...

Intersex is an umbrella term for people born with sex characteristics—including chromosomes, hormones, genitals, or reproductive anatomy—that do not fit typical binary notions of male or female bodies.

☝️this is what modern scientific data says, and for that this is what I believe.

Hmm. Look different, actually different, care about different things… that’s why these women are called trans widows…

Is that what modern science says, really? You mean people like Sir Robert Winston, or Christiane Nuesslein Vollhard (Nobel price for developmental biology, I spare you the googling) are saying this stuff?

Okay, answer my question just this one.

Can you tell me in detail (as much as you can muster) the difference between biological sex and gender?

@Thatannoyingone why are you discussing intersex ? This is a fully functioning male who has male genitalia who has produced sperm which fertilised two eggs that we know of, so definitely a male. Women who transition cannot produce sperm, men who transition cannot grow ovaries.

Whatever the reason's for this man believing he is now able to be a woman, the children he produced with his sperm, should not be gaslit into believing he has changed sex, he is simply choosing to dress up as his prefered variation of 'woman' .

Because people brought up nonsense and then asked me questions, so I'm answering them.

Most people just like you keep bringing up that there is only man and woman which is untrue because intersex people exist, and so do many other things that break this binary thinking.

My sympathy is with your friend and her children. They must be devastated. I'm sure 'Steve' will be hunky dory. He'll be riding the trans euphoria train now he's 'come out'.

I'm sure being a widow and being a trans-widow are both utterly devastating in the majority of cases. It's not a competition to see who suffers the most grief.

FWIW, I think they are very similar and the name is apt, if that is what the term they choose.

Intersex is a disorder of sex. Which is binary. And immutable.

Transgender is a feeling.

I have absolutely no interest in gender, you make up your own definition and I will ignore it. Gender can fuck right off (other than in grammar). Sex however is binary and it is binary throughout the entire eukaryotic parts of the phylogenetic tree. Evolution came up with sexual reproduction to increase genetic variability to enable species to adapt to changing environments. Humans are not outwith this system and any biologist worth his or her salt is very aware of this. . Sometimes humans (or other animals) don't develop as is the norm but that doesn't make them some sort if intermediate being, it makes them a male of female human with a difference in development and with potential health and fertility issues. And all this has fuck all to do with a grown man who fathered two children and has now decided to play out his fetish with no regard to his wife and those children.

Most people just like you keep bringing up that there is only man and woman which is untrue because intersex people exist, and so do many other things that break this binary thinking.

Even if that were true , and I don't honestly think it is, it definitely isn't true in this scenario. This isn't someone who is intersex/DSD this is someone who is male , produces sperm which fertilises eggs type male, who then decides he wants to be female. No ambiguity , just a bloke that wants to be a woman for whatever reason. Probably decided this after the rougher child rearing days where Mummy is the default parent are over too ! Happy enough to be Mummy now the hard slog is over, which is so male thinking !

In a way, he has though.

It really sounds like this man has just fallen for a cult rather than being an autogynophile. Horrible. I am so sorry that Jess is going through this (I speak as a trans widow myself and I will not apologise for using the word widow).

I agree. I wouldn't go along with this nonsense.

Why the focus is on Jess and not on someone who, allegedly, knew he is a woman but who chose to lie and pretend he is a man - to the extent of fathering children and convincing everyone around him? Men are allowed to be single, allowed to be gay, allowed to be asexual if the wish. There is little pressure form society for a man to marry and have children - if fact, there are many guys who never marry. So why Steve chose to use someone like this? I will tell you. Steve is not a "woman" - Steve is a guy with AGP who chosen to blow up his family because of his fetish. Simples. Before, he was getting his kicks in private, it was enough. Now, its not enough, he needs to "transition". He does not care about his family. Why is it his wife's fault that she is traumatised?

BTW - he would never "ask to be transitioned as a child" because AGP is a sex fetish. Children generally don't participate.

She is a window because her Steve no longer exists. Her Steve was a fiction.

No.
I assume you have never informed your young children their father has died and watched their world split apart and known you are breaking their childhood? There is now only before and after.

Watched your children with their father’s coffin, speak at his funeral and struggle to accept that they will never ever see him again?
Never one more conversation, never another interaction forever and ever.
Sat with them in the middle of the night while they cry and beg that it’s not true and please just let their daddy come back?
Seen their faces deeply drawn and exhausted with horrific, boring, never ending, isolating grief?

Nothing is like death.

Nothing is like taking children to visit their dad and it meaning standing at a shitty grave.
Death means no reconciliation can be made, no second chances, and nothing can be done to make the world the right way round again.

I understand and applaud that you are defending the women and children that are living the nightmare of losing the person who was their partner and father.
The situation is awful and I see all the issues the family will face and have nothing but compassion for them.
There are things that are unique to this situation and I have nothing but sympathy for Jess. The children calling this person mummy etc is just awful. I hope the family have very good friends and access to serious support.

I personally understand the trans widow label and have no issue with it.
But as long as there is life and a future, no, please do not say it is worse than actual death.

Its not the actual death but I would imagine the feeling of loss is final and irreversible. You lost the person you loved, they are not coming back. Whoever is left in their place is not them. There is no future together.

I reckon he is dumping all the child care and everything on her

No one has to stay friends with someone they don't have anything in common with and don't enjoy being with anymore. Just as if they'd grown apart. Your husband doesn't have to stay friends just out of guilt - it's been years already, Steve isn't someone your husband wants you be mates with and hasn't been for some time. Just phase him out. Now him and Jess have split up that should be easier to do.

Really shit situation for Jess and the kids. I'm sorry any woman ever has to go go through this. I agree with others that it's emotionally abusive to lie to them and pretend he is a mother.

Be interesting to see,once they are separated, how much interest and effort Steve maintains in the children. I hope they aren't dropped in his self centredness and new life.

Steve wasn't living a lie, Steve has changed.

My values are a lot different in my 40s than my 20s and so I think its quite possible Steve was Steve and now isn't.

I get the grief. But just as Steve is moving out of the husband role and into a new life, it's quite possible that Steve's interests and friends will change too over time.

Its OK for your DH to trynand support Steve but realise that he no longer has enough common ground to sustain a friendship.

I wouldn't overthink how that might make you feel perceived (like as a bad friend or unsupportive) because maybe the.friendship will ride it out and maybe it won't. Just go with the flow and accept that you're all allowed to feel how you feel.

Be interesting to see,once they are separated, how much interest and effort Steve maintains in the children. I hope they aren't dropped in his self centredness and new life.

Well as Steve is now a woman, he will be judged as any woman who abandons their children for selfish pursuits ?

Agree.