Intrusive thoughts DD

[LavateraRose]

Lord above I am out of my depth with DD who is late 11, soon to be 12.
She is having negative intrusive thoughts and I have no clue about how to help her.
She is repeatedly having thoughts that I am fat and ugly and a most horrible mother. She tells me this whilst trembling, crying her heart out, and begging me for forgiveness for having such ''terrible" thoughts about me, all the while telling me that she truly thinks I'm beautiful, not at all fat, and a lovely mother. She gets beyond distressed by these thoughts that I'm fat, ugly and a bad mum, to the point that I worry about her because she goes white with fear and upset.
She is also having continuous thoughts that she did bad things to her friends that she didn't do, and that she said mean things to her friends that she didn't say. The most random things, like for example crying because she thinks she deliberately stuck her foot out to trip a friend over on purpose to deliberately make them fall over and hurt themselves, when in fact all she did was walk past them and didn't trip them up at all. Then she'll torment herself for hours saying that she doesn't know if she did actually trip them up on purpose or not because her thoughts keep telling her she did, so therefore they must be true, even though she didn't, her brain keeps telling her she did, then she gets distressed again and round and round it goes.
She is endlessly crying to me asking "Am I a bad person? Am I a bad person? Am I am I am I?!? I need to know if I'm bad or good!!!!".
I do manage to calm her down with physical comfort and calm rationalisation, she cheers up a bit, then hours later it's all back again.
She is exhausted by these thoughts and I'm watching her get drained and exhausted by it all.
Selfishly, I am absolutely drained and exhausted by it too.
The most straightforward of tasks are getting constantly delayed by hour long diversions whilst I try to console her distress. The amount of time all this attention and comfort she's requiring due to these intrusive thoughts is blocking me from simple daily chores such as making dinner, tidying up, bedtime routines, and it's also blocking me from giving attention to my DS 13.
Interspersed with the crying distress and emotional confessions of non stop intrusive thoughts, she is having episodes multiple times a day of shouting, shreaking, wailing meltdowns about the most insignificant things.
DS is finding it all really difficult to live with as she routinely starts screaming at him for things like eating loudly. To my mind he's just eating normally. To her mind he's eating deliberately loudly like a wild animal (he's not though). Or she screams excessively at him if he walks across the room and momentarily walks in front of the TV when she's watching it.
Her behaviour is all consuming. It is stopping me from giving much needed time and attention to my DS.
Daily bouts of her screaming at me "I HATE YOU I REALLY REALLY HATE YOU", for what I do not know, then an hour later repenting and apologising and beating herself up for being "a bad person" and constantly asking me repeatedly if I still love her. I reasure her thst of course I still love her, I tell her my love for her never ever changes, but this gives her little reassurance.
When I ask her what I did to make her shout she hates me, she doesn't even know.
I can't actually cope with her behaving like this anymore. We've been living like this for months on end, a year probably, and she's getting worse.
She's compulsively handwashing to "wash all my worries away". Her hands are red sore.
GP said get support from school because CAMHS is a 3 year wait. School said go back to GP. GP repeated the advice to go back to school. School have now set her up with seeing a weekly wellbeing practitioner at school who sounds pretty unhelpful from what DD tells me, and she makes suggestions to DD that makes things worse not better. She really doesn't sound skilled in advising DD on these thoughts and behaviours.
Bedtime is taking HOURS every night to get her calm enough to settle. I've recently caught her hitting her own head hard in upset to 'punish' herself for having 'bad' thoughts.
DD has had anxiety for years.
I don't understand why. She's had the most loving, stable, secure, joyful childhood. I have loved her unconditionally and have told her I love her every day of her life. I am a devoted mother, my whole life is dedicated to looking after her the absolute best I can and to give her a lovely, happy and emotionally secure life.
Why has she turned out like this? Why is she an anxious wreck? Nothing has happened in her life to cause this.
I am now at the point where I can feel myself starting to go a bit numb towards her. On a daily basis she is hurting my feelings, taking up every shred of my emotional energy, stopping me from having time to do anything else and she is draining the life out of me with her emotional complexities.
How do I find the strength to carry on coping with this?

As an aside ADHD linked RSD could well be a factor for a lot of what you describe. The overthinking with ADHD can also make what is a normal thought like 'my mum is annoying' into something you overthink and worry about. So keep and open mind as OCD type symptoms can come from a wide range of causes.

Spot on! Exactly our case and thankfully adhd drugs rather than ADs resolved it..

Hello @Treebaubles What sessions cost £50-60? What type of professional was that with please? Can you tell me who you used?
There are so many different private professionals I'm reading up on that deal with children's mental health; psychiatrists, psychologists, psychotherapist....I don't know which one to go to. And £50-60 would be manageable using my overdraft but where is this?? Because in my area the sessions I'm researching about are getting on for £200 for each 50 min therapy session. And upwards of £500 diagnostic assessment. Thank you for any further guidance you can give me.

That's great. Atomexitine (non stimulant adhd meds) have been our lifesaver for the last few years. Although now age 12 with puberty hormones going wild things have got a bit more problematic the last few months. I'm hoping an increased dose will help as he's shot up in height/weight recently too. Just waiting for next review!

Hello, I am so sorry to hear how unwell your daughter is. I have OCD and your daughter’s intrusive thoughts do sound very like they might be OCD. My mum has always been my rock - not because she knew what to do or the ins and outs of OCD - but because she showed she loved me unconditionally. Normal things like hugs, making sure I ate, not judging me etc I just wanted to share this as I know my mum felt so helpless but honestly her just being there as my mum made the absolute world of difference. OCD is horrible but I also want to say that with medication and CBT I am now pretty much symptom free. Your daughter can get better. I hope this gives you some hope and your daughter. I would agree with others to reach out to OCD UK and it’s really good you have managed to speak to CAMHS. I wish you and your daughter all the very very best.

From the beginning I was reading this wondering if she has OCD. I was diagnosed a few years ago at 33! It’s an awful thing to live with. 😌 I have good times where I feel I’m relatively “normal” with low anxiety, low intrusive thoughts etc and then some dips where it’s a lot worse. 11/12 is a hard age anyway. Sending love I’m sure it’s not easy for you ❤️

That’s it!! Us too!

so few people on MN are on Atomoxetine it’s so amazing to find someone on same boat !

first week we started it, just 10mg, OCD disappeared (he’s on 60mg now) and suddenly all calm! saved our life !

yes true we increased too due to growth but pulsing morning and evening ❤️

Wait, I didn't know that ADHD can be linked to intrusive thoughts.
I'm almost certain DD has inattentive ADHD, actually maybe she has both types, I've been thinking it for the past few months.
She came home from school recently and told me she thinks she has ADHD. She was listening to school mates talk about their symptoms and she identified with them. This was very recently. And it was interesting to me that she said it, because I've been thinking it.
But i didn't know anything about it being linked to intrusive thoughts and anxiety.

My son's private Psychiatrist said that stimulants would make the tics worse. He's diagnosed mild Tourette's as well as AuDHD but mainly suppresses them outside his home so not very obvious to others.

Since starting atomexitine hes almost entirely stopped tics and his intrusive thoughts are hugely reduced. Anxiety massively better too. No side effects at all. Whereas friends I know who have tried sertraline have all found it changes personality/mood too.

He's currently on 40mg once a day but he's low BMI. This is another thing that jas thankfully improved gradually as anxiety has fallen. He was very underweight, now low end of normal.

Take her to a&e. Don’t leave until they get her in front of a psychologist. Say she’s going to harm herself.

Yes it does hugely. Have a look into rejection sensitive dysphoria which is linked to ADHD. But also just general overthinking can lead to anxiety and OCD type symptoms.

My son has AuDHD but mainly inattentive. He's very well behaved at school but all that masking holds in all the emotion and stress. He's constantly worrying about things he's said or done. Then takes huge leaps from I've done x (e.g. today he accidently stood on a fly) equal y (I'm a horrendous person and might as well die). It's really distressing to see but the med have resolved the vast majority of it. Just struggling now agai as he's grown a lot and clearly needs dose adjusted.

This is why it's so.impprtant to get a propwr diagnosis after full psychiatric assessments. If you go down the wrong line meds can make things worse not better.

Oh yes!

massively ! So the treatment route is different but also super quick

only problem adhd assessment is more expensive around 800-1000 but a good consultant gives treatment immediately (they did with us )

so all this torture you’re both going through can have an end very quickly !

my consultant has been amazing ! DMd you details x

My DS also developed OCD when he was around 12 or 13, also centring on him being racist, and how can he be sure that he isn’t etc. I second contacting the charity OCD-UK, they’ll be able to point you in the right direction. I was also told the wait for an NHS assessment would be years so wait private and in the meantime, bought a bunch of books to understand better how to react and help. I recommend Brain Lock as well - was recommended by OCD-UK. It had a list of common intrusive thoughts at the end. It hugely reassured DS to see his fear listed as common - he had assumed he was the only person with « evil » thoughts … I had to take two weeks off work when i became aware and looked into the condition . It was also the absolute worst worse time in my life, I could literally barely put one foot in front of the other. In our case he didn’t end up needing CBT, I guess we were lucky that it went away quite quickly in the end. I’d say reading up and understanding the thought process was key to helping him. Best of luck.

To add, the psych noted that he had tics too, and recommended ASD assessment. This was a remote psychiatric assessment sorted through the Priory in our case, we just let the choosing of the specialist to them and she was great.

Psychiatrists - are medical doctors, they've been to med school and then specialised in the brain. They are the only ones who can prescribe medication and give a diagnosis. Most expensive privately.

Psychologists have studied the brain but focus on the therapeutic side. They usually specialise in specific conditions eg OCD, anxiety, eating disorders. IME, those that work with under 18s have spent some time working in CAMHS before switching to private practice. Usually offer CBT and/or DBT.

Psychotherapists - have studied types of therapy but not psychology. Will offer things like EMDR, tapping, 'holistic therapy'. These are the cheapest option but IME are fine for anxiety but nothing more serious. Certainly not equipped to help with OCD.

I may not have that 100% correct as it's based on my understanding and questioning of professionals over the last 3 years. My daughter is AuDHD - autistic and inattentive ADHD, late diagnosed for both. My limited knowledge of OCD was the cleaning rituals and light switches etc but its so much more than that.

Please do make sure you have a safety plan. A lock box for medications (especially paracetamol).

Programme numbers into your phone - 111 option 2 is mental health. Also young minds (and they have a parent line). I'll dig out our CAMHS info and find others for you tomorrow.

Can you get signed off work by your GP? I had 3 months initially, and then periods of emergency leave and flexible working whenever things took a turn for the worse. I have an incredibly understanding employer - i simply could not have stayed working otherwise and im a single mum so that wasn't a palatable option.

I should probably have said that my DD is AuDHD and was under both a psychiatrist and a psychologist when EMDR was recommended for her intrusive thoughts.

Thank you for explaining the difference in these professions.