Intrusive thoughts DD

[LavateraRose]

Lord above I am out of my depth with DD who is late 11, soon to be 12.
She is having negative intrusive thoughts and I have no clue about how to help her.
She is repeatedly having thoughts that I am fat and ugly and a most horrible mother. She tells me this whilst trembling, crying her heart out, and begging me for forgiveness for having such ''terrible" thoughts about me, all the while telling me that she truly thinks I'm beautiful, not at all fat, and a lovely mother. She gets beyond distressed by these thoughts that I'm fat, ugly and a bad mum, to the point that I worry about her because she goes white with fear and upset.
She is also having continuous thoughts that she did bad things to her friends that she didn't do, and that she said mean things to her friends that she didn't say. The most random things, like for example crying because she thinks she deliberately stuck her foot out to trip a friend over on purpose to deliberately make them fall over and hurt themselves, when in fact all she did was walk past them and didn't trip them up at all. Then she'll torment herself for hours saying that she doesn't know if she did actually trip them up on purpose or not because her thoughts keep telling her she did, so therefore they must be true, even though she didn't, her brain keeps telling her she did, then she gets distressed again and round and round it goes.
She is endlessly crying to me asking "Am I a bad person? Am I a bad person? Am I am I am I?!? I need to know if I'm bad or good!!!!".
I do manage to calm her down with physical comfort and calm rationalisation, she cheers up a bit, then hours later it's all back again.
She is exhausted by these thoughts and I'm watching her get drained and exhausted by it all.
Selfishly, I am absolutely drained and exhausted by it too.
The most straightforward of tasks are getting constantly delayed by hour long diversions whilst I try to console her distress. The amount of time all this attention and comfort she's requiring due to these intrusive thoughts is blocking me from simple daily chores such as making dinner, tidying up, bedtime routines, and it's also blocking me from giving attention to my DS 13.
Interspersed with the crying distress and emotional confessions of non stop intrusive thoughts, she is having episodes multiple times a day of shouting, shreaking, wailing meltdowns about the most insignificant things.
DS is finding it all really difficult to live with as she routinely starts screaming at him for things like eating loudly. To my mind he's just eating normally. To her mind he's eating deliberately loudly like a wild animal (he's not though). Or she screams excessively at him if he walks across the room and momentarily walks in front of the TV when she's watching it.
Her behaviour is all consuming. It is stopping me from giving much needed time and attention to my DS.
Daily bouts of her screaming at me "I HATE YOU I REALLY REALLY HATE YOU", for what I do not know, then an hour later repenting and apologising and beating herself up for being "a bad person" and constantly asking me repeatedly if I still love her. I reasure her thst of course I still love her, I tell her my love for her never ever changes, but this gives her little reassurance.
When I ask her what I did to make her shout she hates me, she doesn't even know.
I can't actually cope with her behaving like this anymore. We've been living like this for months on end, a year probably, and she's getting worse.
She's compulsively handwashing to "wash all my worries away". Her hands are red sore.
GP said get support from school because CAMHS is a 3 year wait. School said go back to GP. GP repeated the advice to go back to school. School have now set her up with seeing a weekly wellbeing practitioner at school who sounds pretty unhelpful from what DD tells me, and she makes suggestions to DD that makes things worse not better. She really doesn't sound skilled in advising DD on these thoughts and behaviours.
Bedtime is taking HOURS every night to get her calm enough to settle. I've recently caught her hitting her own head hard in upset to 'punish' herself for having 'bad' thoughts.
DD has had anxiety for years.
I don't understand why. She's had the most loving, stable, secure, joyful childhood. I have loved her unconditionally and have told her I love her every day of her life. I am a devoted mother, my whole life is dedicated to looking after her the absolute best I can and to give her a lovely, happy and emotionally secure life.
Why has she turned out like this? Why is she an anxious wreck? Nothing has happened in her life to cause this.
I am now at the point where I can feel myself starting to go a bit numb towards her. On a daily basis she is hurting my feelings, taking up every shred of my emotional energy, stopping me from having time to do anything else and she is draining the life out of me with her emotional complexities.
How do I find the strength to carry on coping with this?

Am I selfish to be feeling so emotionally drained by this??
I know it's my poor DD who is suffering here, not me. But I feel like I can barely function. I am struggling to get myself in to work every day because I feel like I've got nothing left in me to give to my job.
I am starting to feel really empty inside.
I love her so much. I am very distressed by her pain yet numb at the same time. It's hard to explain.
BTW the 3 year CAMHS wait IS urgent. Urgent kids mental health = 3 years in my NHS trust.

Can you ask for right to choose via the nhs?

Can someone find me a child psychiatrist for £400? I am too drained to search.
I am in Sussex.
I will pay £400. I'll borrow the money from my bank if that's what it takes.

Is she?
How do you know this?
She is not diagnosed with ASD, so how do you feel sure of this?
Our school SENCo is worse than useless.

What causes OCD??

I'm so sorry you are going through this. I've been through/going through similar with my DD and it started at similar age. I spent most of early last year in tears to the GP about DD - she just completely fell apart in her first year of high school. OCD, intrusive thoughts, suicide ideation, meltdowns, she hated me. Anyway I found a psychologist and went to gp again for a private referral which I got but GP insisted she refer me to cahms too which I thought was pointless as I knew of the waiting lists.

However within a few weeks we had a crisis meeting, then they took her on for weekly sessions. Within a few months we had a diagnosis of autism and inattentive ADHD, which tbh until a year ago wasn't even on my radar. I'm still not entirely sure where my daughter has gone 😢

I realise this is unusual and I've no idea how we slipped through as altho my daughter was probably a real danger to herself I hear of kids all the time who are in a similar situation.

We are now waiting psychiatric input for meds. I'm not saying things are great now, far far from it but they are a little calmer and expectations have changed. Anyway my point is get the referral into cahms as back up but pursue private help too if an option.

Private psychiatrist will sort this .. could be OCD (sometimes sudden infection causes it ) , could be depression

all sorted with meds

i ll look in Sussex for you @LavateraRose but you might be able to find online too

in the meantime I ll DM you our own x

Thank you so much everyone.
DD has just woken up and is upset so I am going to be a few hours with her now trying to settle her.
I will check back in after I get home from work tomorrow.
Thank you so much for replying to me🙏

I am also in Sussex. My daughter has been treated by this doctor for intrusive thoughts. It’s expensive but NHS services for young people with mental health issues seem to be non-existent. Good luck
https://www.finder.bupa.co.uk/Consultant/view/264006/dr_priya_nathwani

I DMed you info @LavateraRose
Seems you have more good suggestions here

good luck xxx

I know people are recommending child psychiatrists but I think you need family therapy. You say she has has a joyous life but she has a completely unavailable and arsehole of a father. With a mother who is trying to compensate. I’d look there first.

Only a psychiatrist can diagnose and medicate for under 18s. I used Clinical Partners online who diagnosed Phobic Anxiety Disorder initially, then changed to OCD which DD agreed with. She didn't get on with medication (titrated up to 75mg but she hated the side effects so refused to take more - OCD generally needs higher doses so we didn't get to the stage of it helping - each prescription was £80).

You'll also need CBT, its the recommended therapy for OCD. Not a quick fix though. DD was making (IMO, not hers) progress after 8 sessions but then she started college so stopped going. She says the thoughts never went away. I just know she was much calmer, ate better, started leaving the house again about a month into treatment. Unfortunately the psychologist we used only treats over 16s.

We're a year on, she aged out of CAMHS before getting any therapy via them, adult services initially didn't accept but now have so we're back to square one. Also Sussex.

Early Help is not much use with mental health stuff IME, but could refer you for a carers assessment.

You can self refer to CAMHS via Spoa if you're West Sussex https://e-wellbeing.co.uk/support/
Be clear on how bad it is and the impact on your other child. Ask school to also complete a referral. And the GP. And keep doing it if the situation worsens and you haven't been accepted. Just getting on the damn list for assessment takes perseverance. Once you're on the list, ring CAMHS duty every time there is an incident so it's recorded - i didn't do this because all they did was add to DDs notes, but it builds a picture of escalating need.

Best wishes to you, its a horrible situation to be in and exhausting. Do you have any family nearby that can help?

I recommend contacting https://www.steppingstonesclinic.uk/. They are very helpful and have great psychiatrists. It isn't cheap, but if you can find the money then it is life changing to get the right help. I have been where you are, and it is so, so tough. Look after yourself, too.

Oh, and i have never paid more than £10 for a private prescription for a child in Boots, so please don't let that put you off. Medication has saved my dc.

Neurodiversity runs in families.

im wondering if DH and DD are both ND.

I agree that if finances allow an assessment from a clinical psychologist is required.

Also push Gp for camhs. Self harming should push her referral up a bit.

So should I contact a Clinical Psychologist or a Psychiatrist?
I've had suggestions of both and I don't know the difference between the two in terms of which one would be better able to help her.

You need a psychiatrist initially for diagnosis and treatment plan (which usually includes a psychologist). If you go through one of these clinics then they do the assessment initially and can advise on the best professionals, you don't need to work that out yourself.

Only psychiatrists (who are medical doctors) can prescribe medication so you need to start there. For example, treatment for OCD often includes both medication and therapy like CBT. A psychologist can do the CBT part, but they can’t prescribe the meds. Often you will see both these professionals.

I used Stepping Stones as a poster has also recommended - you could contact them and just ask them for the best course of action.

We already had a clinical psychologist but she can't prescribe medication so we went to Stepping Stones as they have psychiatrists there. After filling in some information and questionnaires etc we had our consultation online. The psychiatrist then provided a report with the assessment and a prescription for medication. It was £500 for that assessment and meds.

He isn't an arsehole.
DH loves her so much.
He hugs her and soothes her when she's upset. He gives her affection every day. He tells her he loves her every day of her life. He is continuously telling her he is proud of her, and she has grown up with him telling her this. He tells her all the time how amazing she is. He supports her. Encourages her.
He takes her out to all the fun places she loves, he takes her swimming, he takes her to the park, he runs around playing with her - ball games, hide and seek, he plays all her favourite games with her. When she wants to chill he sits and watches her favourite movies and TV shows with her that he personally wouldn't watch but he'll sit and watch them with her because she loves them. She loves playing games on her Nintendo so he'll play double player games with her. He acts silly with her on purpose to make her laugh, and she is silly back which makes them laugh together. He runs around after her cooking her favourite meals, buying her favourite food when he goes shopping, he reads to her, he takes her out on days out to wherever she wants to go to. He's always complimenting her positive qualities to her, and he is forever telling her how lucky we all are to have her in our lives. Never a day goes past without him asking her how her day has been. DD loves him to bits.
What he's useless at is listening to me when I talk to him about all these problems. He literally doesn't know what to say or do and just gets stressed by me telling him all this. Not because he doesn't care but because there's just nothing there in him that knows what to say or do to help me with this. He gets a stress response when I talk to him about all this. And that makes me beyond frustrated with him and it makes me feel unsupported. And he works very long hours because he is trying to work overtime to bring in more money so that I can work slightly less hours because he says he wants to try and take the strain off of me; trouble is I need him at home more so this isn't necessarily helping but if he works less hours then I'll need to work more hours and I'm exhausted. So there's no easy answer.
But he's not an arsehole.
He's out of his depth.

I think we’re all out of our depth when faced with mental health problems in our children tbh, especially initially.

Hopefully he can learn how to support her but I’m very sorry you’re on your own with this now OP 💐 It’s very difficult.

Our GP suggested going to A and E to get CAMHS attention as DC was so unwell at the time. That is a traumatic experience in itself, and I don’t necessarily recommend it, but it’s there as a last resort perhaps?

Someone can have the happiest and most stable childhood in the world and still have a mental health condition. I had a very happy and stable childhood. My parents honestly could not have been better parents to me, really, and I grew up in a pleasant, comfortable environment, had friends, went to decent, friendly schools etc.

Despite all that I still suffer from significant depression, anxiety, and a type of OCD. It's an illness. It was no more caused by my family or childhood than, say, asthma or an allergy or short-sightedness.

Your daughter needs treatment for her condition from a specialist medical professional, just as she would if she had a physical illness.

Thank you.
I have been searching my soul for what I've done wrong or where I've gone wrong and I am being pretty hard on myself thinking I haven't done a good enough job as her mum.
Your post is appreciated.
I hope you are doing okay. Sending love to you.

You nailed this !😍

@LavateraRose we have a clear approach in the household: anything with MH impact , needs first psychiatrist/medication route and then when DC are calm and stable , we can kick off other routes (therapy etc )

without the right meds , they won’t even be calm enough to participate in anything else

and at cases where brain is playing up (like in our case ), only medication helped nothing else

hope you contacted them today ? X

Hi op, I have only read your posts not the whole thread, but I did want to respond as my daughter has very similar struggles to yours, she is 15 now and I agree with others that you will have to beg, borrow or steal and go private for a psychiatrist for medication and a phycologist or psychotherapist who is trained in methods like erp and acceptance therapy. My daughter finally was triaged by cahms after a suicide attempt. They referred her for an autism assement and discharged her. She had NHS funded psychotherapy through a local charity, but the therapist didn't have relevant knowledge about OCD and frankly wasn't very good and now my daughter doesn't want to see another therapist.

She was prescribed fluoxotine and that has really helped manage and reduce her anxiety. This is who prescribed it; https://onlinepsychiatry.uk/

She will need therapy though so I am still working on persuading her.

I have also shown her some short videos on instagram and you tube which just let her know her thoughts don't make her a bad person, they are just thoughts not opinions, let them go etc.