To think when the state pension is removed, the social contract is broken?

[JulyJulyNovember]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8e2yp1gg37o

It seems likely that in due course, the universal state pension will be withdrawn. At this point, I don’t see how there will be any incentive for young people to build wealth here.

I don’t think poor pensioners should be homeless, but I don’t think they should be provided for in large, unsuitable council houses or in nursing homes where places cost thousands a week. We are moving to a more individualistic world.

Much depends on what part of the public sector, and the job.

I worked in local government, in the North, for ten years pre retirement, housing officer, admin supervisor, fairly low level. I wouldn’t have earned as much in the private sector, or had such good T&C. Great pension scheme for long term employees, retirement at 55 being possible for some. There were also few I worked with who wouldn't have lasted in the private sector, there were some real time servers, and some with links to the largest political group. There were also some fantastic people, who went over and above in terms of public service.

However, in some professional jobs, people are paid far more, IT and finance professionals for instance.

I was local government too which is funded, unlike other public pension schemes.

I think what the pp are forgetting is that any LA pension scheme applies to cleaners, dinner ladies, janitors, home carers, school admin staff etc.

Yet they seem to think these people are now loaded when they have worked for the living or minimum wage just like retail staff etc.

@Differentforgirls its been repeatedly pointed out to you on this thread that low-paid employees with a public sector DB pension have a far more generous retirement income than a person earning the same in a private sector, typically DC scheme. That’s because actuaries have decided they are the only sustainable long-term option, if the maths is going to math.

Literally nobody thinks they’re “loaded”. Just relatively better-off to a degree that some people (me included) think is unfair.

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I'm pleased you agree that private sector employees are not funding public sector pay and pensions.

Again, you have misquoted me. I did not say 'salary deferral', I said that pension is deferred salary.

Of course it's jam today if you choose to pay the 3% minimum rather than the 9-10% demanded by public sector schemes. If you invested 10% (and your employer contributions) for 30 years you could match the public sector.

The young people won’t be able to build wealth in any European country as the pension system is going to fail across Europe. There is not enough people working or contributing, antisocial behaviour costs the government’s millions, the speedy rise of unskilled citizens across Europe is costing billions, society has declined across the board, without incentives it will get worse.

Because it's deferred salary. It's part of their overall package. Which part of that is unfair? That is the deal they signed up for. If you signed a different deal, that's on you.

Well it's a good job you aren't in a position to take that contributory pension away from low paid workers while surviving on your partners 90k pension plus the £25k you'll jointly get from the state.

how much so you think the average private sector worker gets in employer pension contributions?

If you genuinely believe your final paragraph, I am afraid you are seriously misguided. It’s rare as hen’s teeth for a private sector employer to pay more than 10% and in order to receive that much, it typically has to be matched by the employee.

And even if a private sector employee does that, the end result is not (literally, absolutely, never) an index-linked defined benefit pension for life. That’s is why public sector pensions are so-called gold plated. You might be able to purchase a healthy annuity whilst hedging your bets between lump sums and longevity, but that’s about as good as it gets.

And yes, ultimately all of this is funded by the wealth-creating private sector, because literally everything else is just shuffling the same money around.

As I said, I’m selfishly all in favour of the NHS pension scheme because it’s going to allow me to fuck off on holiday every Winter for the rest of my life. But it’s absolutely mendacious BS to suggest that we could have an equivalent retirement if we upped our contributions a tad. (My DSis is an actuary and would find the idea hilarious - it’s literally in the realm of “stop eating avocados and you’d have a house deposit”).

So, it must be down to area. My son was 23 when he bought his home.

However, that was with his partner which obviously makes it easier than a single person trying to buy.

Like me really as I could never have afforded my first (and last btw) house if I was single.

I know, by being on here, how hard it is for young people now with regard to property but my lived experience is different.

My other son bought his flat on his own though.

Plus they pay, at least, 6% of their wages into it.

Okay it’s deferred from their salary - which would need to be hundreds of thousands a year btw, if someone were to accrue a sufficient pension pot to buy an equivalent annuity. But yes, every single bog-washer employed by the council is totally worth that, even if they’re currently enjoying 6 months off sick on full pay. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Is that what I’m supposed to say? Because it has no basis in commercial reality, you do realise that?

Ah but you’ve already said they earn fuck all. And 6% of fuck all is…. 😂

(Not enough for a multi-million pension pot?!)

“Bog washer” says a lot about you. If it wasn’t for “bog washers” companies would be fucked. What is it you do?

I take it you’re unemployed?

Oh dear, @Differentforgirls, weren’t you ticking someone off for “personal attacks” a few pages ago?

I am very much employed, and have been for 35 years without a break except when I took <2 months off to have DS. Bog-washer was a sarcastic example of a low-paid job. And you’re missing the point again - it’s not about how essential (or not) aforementioned bog-washers are, it’s about whether we can afford to continue giving them (and every other bugger in the public sector) a honking great gravity-defying pension for life at the public expense, whilst talking about removing £200 a week in SP from all but the poorest.

I would be fixing the public sector pension disparity first.

Would you? Good for you. Thankfully you have no power to.

2 months. 8 weeks. 😢

No I don’t, because that’s not how representative democracy works 🤷🏻‍♀️

Someone is going to have to tackle it though - I just hope it’s a UK government rather than the IMF (and ideally, only after I’ve hammered DH’s rather splendid pension income!)

If there were no bog washers, there would be a polite note in every loo suggesting that the loo brush should be used after every poo.

I can manage that. If I have poohed in the loo, I think it is my responsibility to scrub off any skidmarks!

A large red loo brush should be available in every public toilet, with a large sign suggesting that it should be used if you poohed!

Bog washers also replace the bog roll and paper towels, fill the soap dispensers, empty bins, clean desks, clean floors, clean staff "kitchens" etc. I honestly don't think any company/school/hospital/office/factory/shop - anywhere really could run without them.

So, I do think that description of them was derogatory.

For someone to want to take away the pension that the "bog washers" who work in our public sector contribute towards from their living, or worse, minimum wage is breathtakingly cruel.

Especially coming from someone who will live off a £90k pension that someone else worked for and contributed to and will still claim £25k between her and the actual worker, while (as far as I can see) sitting on her arse on the internet moaning about "bog washers".

I was an NHS "bog washer".
Cleaning loos was a tiny (and gross) part of the job. The cleanest toilets were those that patients used in their rooms. The public ones were vile.
We also had to clean around patients... annoy them several times each day by wanting to clean their room, and remind them to be careful of the wet floor.

But what really got me was when I was cleaning a kick plate in a corridor, and someone told their child that they needed to work hard at school otherwise they would be like me.