AIBU to expect input into my teen's airport travel plans?

[AustraliaPondering]

Long time contributor but NC as very specific.

AIBU to think that this is overstepping and somewhat concerning. I’ll try and be brief.

Gist is emotionally abusive ex. His parents are taking DC 14 away. DC and ex don’t have direct contact (DCs choice). AIBU to think Grandparents should have run return travel plans past me at least, rather than making plans and then they will tell me soon when not so busy?

Full version.

Thanks, in part, to MN and me posting in AIBU around things my exH was doing I have slowly realised the emotional, psychological and financial abuse that was happening.

Good friends who know him well, think he may fit criteria as a communal narcissist, which does seem to fit - lovely to everyone (and talks to everyone about his ‘good deeds’) but very different in private. Would harm me and DC (14) with rages and verbal abuse over very small things. Never in the presence of others). Has left us both quite traumatised.

I am divorcing him. We now live separately.

DC ceased contact around 9 months ago as things got very heated. Their relationship has always been tricky. He has invalidated them, berated them about lots of things and in the last year or so of living together pre separation would barely interact other than to give instructions, lecture or share something about himself. There would be long lectures about DCs ‘wrongdoing’, that would escalate and get physical.

I did my best to challenge this, including involving Social Services when things got physical. He didn’t change so hence divorce.

DC has since disclosed things from when they were younger that I didn’t know. But there have been some significant episodes of pretty traumatising things.

DC is currently only in indirect contact with ex. DCs choice.

So DC has a good relationship with paternal grandparents but they live abroad. They are funding a trip out there for DC in the summer which is very generous of them and DC is looking forward to it.

To be clear, they know nothing about the abuse. They have bought into (I think) his narrative which is that he has been emotionally and physically abused by me. I have reacted at times and I have not been perfect and I hold some responsibility for the things that went wrong, but having looked at it from every angle and lots of soul searching I don’t agree that this is correct.

But this is what they believe. They also believe his story (I think) that I have caused the rupture in the relationship and that, as he puts it, ‘I have stolen his child.’ This is categorically untrue. 100%. It was our DCs choice and still is and I am following advice regarding that.

She (grandmother) is a brilliant woman. She is kind and loving and calm. But, she has never had children, uses shame as a tool to put boundaries in and doesn’t know what DC has been through with ex. He (Grandfather) is loving in his own way, but short tempered and very unempathic. I suspect he may also fit criteria for some communal narcissist traits/behaviours. He will be a little aware of ex’s personality as he raised him, but won’t know what we have experienced.

We live a 6 hour drive from the airport. Grandad is coming to collect DC from the door to take them (I think there is a fear I might sabotage the trip - I wouldn’t do that to DC as they really want to go and it’s an amazing experience for them). They are flying back alone.

I have just asked what their (Grandparents) thoughts are around travelling back from the airport and have been told it’s been sorted and I’ll be informed.

Now in my mind that means;

• some kind of driver/chaperone
• involvement of ex (which is fine IF DC is ok with that and there is a safety plan - but that can’t be robust unless the risks are known)
• UK based relative brining them back (fine with me - but DC might want me to pick them up and I’d happily do it).

My AIBU is;

AIBU To think that these travel plans should have been run by me? I feel quite disrespected to be told that it’s all sorted and I’ll be told about the plans soon.

I get a lot of invalidation and criticism from ex so it’s helpful to know objective views.

I get it, they have been led to believe that I am manipulative and I have done XYZ and because they don’t know what they don’t know. They are possibly guarding against his version of me messing things up. So I can see why they might not feel they can trust me to collaborate.

They will also, out of good intentions, want to reunite father and child, but that needs to be done with the child’s full consent and cooperation - which if it has, I haven’t been informed. DC is very strong willed and stubborn (and funny and clever and loving etc), and will vocalise if they don’t want something, but I’m not sure if they’d feel brave enough once out there and I’m not sure how they would cope with an ambush. Thoughts on this welcome as it’s a back of my head worry.

Thanks in advance if you have waded through and made any sense of that!!

As it’s so specific (I have changed details but still could be recognisable) I’ll not add much more.

BTW: I trust GPs to look after DC well. I think apart from the risk of manipulation into contact with ex, I’m happy they will be well looked after. I will do what I can to minimise the risk of non consenting contact and I’ll give them a bit of background.

I think the risk is very low. I’ve weighed it all up and there are a couple of strong protective factors that make it unlikely.

My dc although older had a slightly similar situation.

he went on holiday with my ex.

it went so badly that he rang me hyperventilating from a hotel room and I was on the phone to him for over an hour. My dc then went to the airport and got on literally the first flight out of there with a seat and then once he was a few hundred miles away from ExH was able to calm down and work out how to get home.

i gave him a shitload of money for the plane fares.

i agree this has the potential to go tits up in a big way, but depending on the country involved I wouldn’t stop it.

if the country is somewhere not signatory to child abduction protocols I’d have a lot of concern. If yes, I’d probably make sure dc had own money and access to a bank card with enough money for flights and or hotel in if shit really hits the fan.

i agree it is very likely ex will show up at some point and your dc is going to be ambushed so maybe make plans for that.

offer to collect from the airport

This isn't something chatGPT can help with very well.

I'm not anti AI at all, but chatGPT is designed above all else to be helpful, factual and to avoid adversarial topics. It's not going to properly engage with the risk of abduction in any meaningful way. That requires a human to look at the nuance of the situation.

There's not a chance in hell I'd be letting my child go on that trip.

Sorry. Step grandmother.

I used it to research Geneva convention. I ve done my own risk assessment but used it to look at a few details.

Thanks. I’ve reached out to my friend to see if they will be a safety net. Giving them money is a good idea too.

How I see it is that to abduct DC would be quite extraordinary. It’s not ‘the done thing’. There are reasons why they would be unlikely to engage in such an extreme behaviour. I also do think that his grandmother wouldn’t do that to DC. I trust her to be mindful and sensible and out of all ex’s family I probably trust her most. There are a few other protective factors.

The Geneva Conventions will be in its internal training data so it can talk authoratively on that. It's factual, not adversarial.

How old are both DC? I would also insist on knowing plans and be concerned about this trip

No crime is the "done thing"

I would not send my child. No way in hell. And I am the most laidback, lax parent ever.

I agree with a PP’s suggestion of a hidden burner phone for emergencies. What about hiding an AirTag in DC’s clothing/shoes? You can get holders that fasten into clothing so the AirTag doesn’t get lost.

This surely can’t be real. Your CHILD is 14 years old and you are letting them go without an actual return plan. Whether your DC wants to see their Father or not is irrelevant once they are there. Your ex learned his behaviour from someone so how on earth would a 14 year old child stand up to 2 or 3 adults. Please please do not let this trip go ahead. Red flags everywhere

I would not be overly concerned at that age, a 14 year old can use public transport if needed, even complicated itineraries. I suspect though the comment from grandad about informing you later is due to there being more than one possibility based on how the trip goes. It will be a good learning experience for dc anyway, just make sure he’s carrying a letter with your permission to travel and your contact details in case immigration ask at the airport

So there’s no details provided for the return journey…are they planning to not allow her to return? What country is she going to?

Another vote for “I would not be allowing this to happen in a million years”. 14 is very young to be flying somewhere alone, add in the complex background and it’s just not worth the risk.

The more I read the more I am convinced this is a terrible idea.

This^

In some situations OP it’s easier to say no to plans rather then trying to change people involved.

travelling back from the airport and have been told it’s been sorted and I’ll be informed.

I’d tell them I am asking them now, so they need to inform me so I can make sure I’m around for the day and time they return

I have return flight details. Just not airport to home details.

Travelling over with grandfather. Flight with chaperone. Then I’m waiting to hear plans for airport to home. DC really wants to go.

Not trying to change anyone.

This!! There’s not a hope in hell they would be going! Sorry but no way!!