AIBU to expect input into my teen's airport travel plans?

[AustraliaPondering]

Long time contributor but NC as very specific.

AIBU to think that this is overstepping and somewhat concerning. I’ll try and be brief.

Gist is emotionally abusive ex. His parents are taking DC 14 away. DC and ex don’t have direct contact (DCs choice). AIBU to think Grandparents should have run return travel plans past me at least, rather than making plans and then they will tell me soon when not so busy?

Full version.

Thanks, in part, to MN and me posting in AIBU around things my exH was doing I have slowly realised the emotional, psychological and financial abuse that was happening.

Good friends who know him well, think he may fit criteria as a communal narcissist, which does seem to fit - lovely to everyone (and talks to everyone about his ‘good deeds’) but very different in private. Would harm me and DC (14) with rages and verbal abuse over very small things. Never in the presence of others). Has left us both quite traumatised.

I am divorcing him. We now live separately.

DC ceased contact around 9 months ago as things got very heated. Their relationship has always been tricky. He has invalidated them, berated them about lots of things and in the last year or so of living together pre separation would barely interact other than to give instructions, lecture or share something about himself. There would be long lectures about DCs ‘wrongdoing’, that would escalate and get physical.

I did my best to challenge this, including involving Social Services when things got physical. He didn’t change so hence divorce.

DC has since disclosed things from when they were younger that I didn’t know. But there have been some significant episodes of pretty traumatising things.

DC is currently only in indirect contact with ex. DCs choice.

So DC has a good relationship with paternal grandparents but they live abroad. They are funding a trip out there for DC in the summer which is very generous of them and DC is looking forward to it.

To be clear, they know nothing about the abuse. They have bought into (I think) his narrative which is that he has been emotionally and physically abused by me. I have reacted at times and I have not been perfect and I hold some responsibility for the things that went wrong, but having looked at it from every angle and lots of soul searching I don’t agree that this is correct.

But this is what they believe. They also believe his story (I think) that I have caused the rupture in the relationship and that, as he puts it, ‘I have stolen his child.’ This is categorically untrue. 100%. It was our DCs choice and still is and I am following advice regarding that.

She (grandmother) is a brilliant woman. She is kind and loving and calm. But, she has never had children, uses shame as a tool to put boundaries in and doesn’t know what DC has been through with ex. He (Grandfather) is loving in his own way, but short tempered and very unempathic. I suspect he may also fit criteria for some communal narcissist traits/behaviours. He will be a little aware of ex’s personality as he raised him, but won’t know what we have experienced.

We live a 6 hour drive from the airport. Grandad is coming to collect DC from the door to take them (I think there is a fear I might sabotage the trip - I wouldn’t do that to DC as they really want to go and it’s an amazing experience for them). They are flying back alone.

I have just asked what their (Grandparents) thoughts are around travelling back from the airport and have been told it’s been sorted and I’ll be informed.

Now in my mind that means;

• some kind of driver/chaperone
• involvement of ex (which is fine IF DC is ok with that and there is a safety plan - but that can’t be robust unless the risks are known)
• UK based relative brining them back (fine with me - but DC might want me to pick them up and I’d happily do it).

My AIBU is;

AIBU To think that these travel plans should have been run by me? I feel quite disrespected to be told that it’s all sorted and I’ll be told about the plans soon.

I get a lot of invalidation and criticism from ex so it’s helpful to know objective views.

I get it, they have been led to believe that I am manipulative and I have done XYZ and because they don’t know what they don’t know. They are possibly guarding against his version of me messing things up. So I can see why they might not feel they can trust me to collaborate.

They will also, out of good intentions, want to reunite father and child, but that needs to be done with the child’s full consent and cooperation - which if it has, I haven’t been informed. DC is very strong willed and stubborn (and funny and clever and loving etc), and will vocalise if they don’t want something, but I’m not sure if they’d feel brave enough once out there and I’m not sure how they would cope with an ambush. Thoughts on this welcome as it’s a back of my head worry.

Thanks in advance if you have waded through and made any sense of that!!

As it’s so specific (I have changed details but still could be recognisable) I’ll not add much more.

I understand why you're concerned. Would you be able to talk with the Grandmother to give some context about your worries?

Even with all of the awful things you've been through out of the picture, it's not mad of you to want to know the logistics for your 14 year old returning home. That's normal. I have a 14 year old, no family issues but if he went abroad I'd want to know what the travel plans were just so that I knew.

Echoing what others have said. Abduction is a huge possibility, partic. if his parents are either scared of your ex or believe his lies.

You really seem to have downplayed this possibility but are clearly a lovely mum - perhaps you're still disentangling yourself from years of abuse (where perhaps you had to downplay things in order to cope)?? I'm reaching, I know, but there are so many flags here I'm wondering why you can't see them (I mean that kindly - I'm not having a pop).

If it was my 14 DD, the fact that someone was withholding travel plans would have made me a) question what TF was going on and b) pull the plug on the whole thing. It's so unreasonable - literally no one would think otherwise. And that's without the back story.

So you have to wonder - why hide the travel plans?

Please protect your DD. You don't have to play nice anymore. It's not your role to placate and keep everyone happy. They should be bending over backwards to reassure you and make you feel comfortable - the fact that they're not .... huge alarm bells.

Btw, if you do cancel the trip, be honest with your DD about why. So that your ex or the GP can't twist it later. Kids that age aren't stupid but equally you need to be clear with them that their GP weren't behaving in a normal way, and that made you worried about what her dad might be up to. Good luck.

So the grandfather is flying from his home country and then making a 12 hour round trip in a hire car to collect DD and then flying her back to his country. They refuse to give you any details about her return journey.

You think they’re all narcs and you know for a fact that one of them is abusive to your child and that the current feeling is that you’ve stolen her from them? Neither you or your child have asked if her abusive parent will be there nor have you informed the grandparents about this abuse?

What the actual fuck are you doing?

Are you even certain they've booked a return flight!?

'Ex did the paperwork'
What sort of paperwork? Do you mean a document for DCs to travel with GPs? Did you sign it?
Or is that paperwork for your separation/divorce?

Obviously, you are expressing your worries in this thread but it does all sound pretty dodgy. GPs should be totally open with you and should have cleared all details with you before they booked anything. They should be open to your involvement, e.g. collecting DC from airport on return.

You do not have to agree to anything. You can refuse at any time before the DCs leave. At a minimum, just refuse to hand over the passports.

I would not be letting them go alone. They would either go with me or not at all

if,as you say, they believe the separation is down to your actions then I bet ex will be there and your child won’t know until they get there and then what? Abroad alone and forced to be with a narcissist father and grandfather?

you and your child need to be tells the grandparents how it actually was and what thier son did to your child as well as you

as I say my child would not be going without me

This trip has red flags all over it. The fact that they won't tell you how DC are getting home suggests that they aren't coming home. I think this is just an elaborate plan to abduct DC and keep them in the country. If exH still has parental responsibility, he could claim they are now living with him and it is all agreed, making it hard to get them home.

I don't want to be alarmist but if these were my DC there is no way they would be getting on a plane anywhere.

I think you're mad to even go along with it. Your abusive ex who was physically abusive to his child, has his narcissistic father who thinks you turned DC against his son, picking up DC to take her abroad. I don't even know your DC and I'm nervous for what is to come.

My guess is that OP has had years of abuse and mistreatment and has been strongly conditioned to believe she is unreasomable/demanding/high maintenance. It sounds like there was some reactive abuse from her to him which is the gift that just keeps on giving for the abuser - they can use this as a tool against their victim pretty much forever, and it ensures the victim continues to question everything they say, think or do.

This sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Worst case they keep DC and refuse to send them home.

No way would I be allowing this.

I feel quite disrespected to be told that it’s all sorted and I’ll be told about the plans soon

Also, in your head, stop thinking of this as disrepect. focus on your child(ren?). This is about keeping them safe, physically and emotionally, and there are certain things that must/must not happen in order to do that.

I am another person who worries that he will not be returned. The fact that you cannot afford an flight out there if something goes wrong is a red flag. I really would be saying no to this.

This is a very scary (but accurate) summary!
Sound's bonkers.

No, no,no, there's definitely something very fishy about the whole trip !
They're determined enough to collect from your door to ensure your DC goes on the trip, but aren't fussed about exactly how they return DC to the same door?

In fact, they're HIDING the return info, likely because there isn't a bloody 'plan to return' your DC at all !

With no court orders for custody/access etc, you'd likely have YEARS of going through foreign courts to even get access to your own child if Ex has decided to physically take custody of his child, as he'd not be doing anything illegal !

You need to shut this down and say no to the whole thing, because the risk is simply too great. Explain to your child exactly what your worries are and how things may play out if that is indeed the Ex's plan, and tell them they can visit when they are 18 and an adult.

At the very least, get a court order to verify that YOU have sole custody and that Ex is currently denied any visitation due to historic abuse. At least if they are a Hague convention country you'd have a good legal case for the return of your child.

Another one here saying that ex will be at his parents at the very least and they quite possiblydon't plan on returning your DC.

The ex is going to be there isn’t he? I would pull the plug and do something different with DD so she isn’t disappointed.

Having put more details into ChatGPT I’m as certain as I can be the plan isn’t abduction. Apart from anything the return flight is booked.

I do suspect there will be concerted effort to reunite father and child so I will

1. speak to DC and see if they know the plan and how they feel about the idea of dad being there or being taken to see him.
2. Based on DCs wishes be clear with GP about what is ok and what isn’t.

I think the risk of further abuse is low now. DC is older and will not tolerate it. Ex knows they can cut contact again so will be ‘super dad’ and can sustain this for long periods.

The biggest risk is ambush, manipulation and undermining my relationship based on incomplete information, but if I deny DC this opportunity then I’m getting in the way of relationship with GPs.

So I’m going to re-visit whether or not to tell them more. It will destabilise ex if I do and I’ll get further abuse. He will retaliate but I can handle it.

Thank you all.

Shut this down now.

You go with DD or she doesn't go. If you can't afford it, the trip gets postponed until you can. I don't like the sound of any of this. She's not old enough or independent enough to get herself out of trouble if something goes wrong.

Agree massively with PP there's shenanigans afoot.

How can a grandmother never have had children???

I wouldn’t be allowing the trip to be honest.

Just spoke to DC. They are sure that dad isn’t going and that they don’t want him to.

They are still sure that they don’t want contact.

I will be firm and clear with GPs re this and share the professional advice I’ve had. I will also share a couple of things that are facts and will cast enough doubt they they will hold some scepticism that what he says isn’t based in fact.

A return flight being booked is nothing. Depending on what country they are entering it would be needed.I would not be letting this happen.

I wouldnt trust chatgpt as the decider on my childs safety. Regarding the return flight, that would be the first thing i'd book when planning an abduction - it could be to set your mind at rest for exactly this scenario and they accept it as a sunk cost. I hope things are all above board, but for me there are far too many flags to ignore to allow this to go ahead as planned.

I asked up thread if....the ex is either GM's step son or they've adopted him.