To think carers should be jailed

[InBedBy10]

That man who threw that poor child into the alligator enclosure is said to be severely mentally disabled. He was out with 2 carers who clearly weren't watching him when this happened. Witnesses have said they were on their phones. AIBU to say they should be charged for this incident?

To be honest this is not the first time i have heard about carers being totally negligent and getting away with it. Instead the care company they worked for was sued. Which will probably happen here. But i think its totally wrong that the people directly responsible can walk off into the sunset with no repercussions. There needs to be more liability put on people in this position.

You sound like you don’t have a wealth of experience in this matter. My sister has never hurt some one, things or herself. Does she have the capacity to? Absolutely.

No, of course they shouldn't.

He should get a prison sentence though, learning difficulties or no.

Oh dear.

You could literally say that about any human being.

Near misses don’t have to involve hurting themselves or hurting other people.
Near miss is exactly what it says on the tin.

There aren’t always “near misses” before new behaviours, however volatile that behaviour is.

For all we know he’d never displayed any aggression but as said above that’s not to say he doesn’t have the capacity to be aggressive. If no previous history of aggression then the investigation needs to ask why he did what he did? Why did he suddenly and unexpectedly become aggressive? Perhaps he can’t communicate his needs, he might have had tooth ache a head back ache unable to communicate this to anyone maybe became overwhelmed in this environment that was noisy and struggling with pain he lashed out. Or maybe the environment with lots of people making a noise over stimulated him. Who knows but no one can speculate and certainly not condemn him to solitary confinement is a prison until an attempt is made to establish why he did what he did.
If you go into the dog house if someone starts a thread my loving kind soppy dog bit me for apparently no reason the first thing everyone says is get the dog checked over and exclude a physical cause first because your dog can’t communicate he in pain. Most psychiatrist will say the same thing no assessment till physical causes have been excluded.
But on here man with severe learning disabilities who it’s highly likely has significant communication issues attacks a child the response lock him up throw away the key and institutionalise everyone else with learning disabilities as well in case they do the same thing. And of course lock up his carers for good measures because it was clearly their fault as well.
When did we become such a shoot first ask questions afterwards society?

As many PP have said, we don’t have all the details. Do we actually know anything about him, whether the carers were in the phone etc etc

It’s an horrific situation, but not one we can comment on because we just dont know much at all.

How on earth do you know that?! So many armchair experts here.

Do you know anything about criminal justice Law and fitness to plead? Just the basics I mean.

Because we get the same people - service users- in every single week without fail, who we are told her completely harmless wouldn’t hurt a fly and we disagree with them because we can see all the signs of them brewing
And then one day they do harm a fly
And everybody says it’s come out of absolutely nowhere, they never behaved in that manner before ever in their lives and today has been the day where they’ve shocked us all
Despite their being 30 emails back-and-forth warning about this behaviour
What it is, is an arse covering exercise.
No doubt lessons will be learnt

That will definitely be the case for a proportion of people. But it’s not for many other people with intellectual disability who fly beneath the radar, are quiet and anxious and genuinely don’t harm a fly. Let’s not assume everyone with ID is the same.

That’s fair enough but to say it’s impossible or difficult to predict the ones is just not true.
I’m absolutely no expert, but you can spot them a frigging mile off

They are probably on minimum wage.

Why does that matter?

A job is a job, it has to be done properly and professionally, whether that is carer or CEO.

It's awful. The bar for carers is so low,. almost anyone can get the job. The staff turnover is terrible and the pay and conditions are awful. No payment for travel time between clients or payments for paperwork time, some companies don't even pay mileage and expect drivers to go out of their way to pick up other members of staff - again no pay for either the time or fuel.

Is it any wonder that people who can get a better job do?

We need to completely overhaul our expectations and perspective of care work to make it appeal to people who will do the job well.

Until more accurate details are released it’s best to avoid jumping on the social media bandwagon. However, I would question the reasoning of allowing a mobile person with learning difficulties to visit a zoo/wildlife park.

Because paying peanuts for an extremely difficult, inflexible and responsibility requiring job doesn't create a sufficient supply of people willing and able to do it properly.

That said, I'm not confident that increasing the wages would solve the problem, even if we were practically able to do so. Which I'm not sure we are- possibly the general public would probably prefer to reduce the standards of care further than pay more for it.

Well yes, human beings are unpredictable.

near misses, depends what you mean. My
sister has never tried or actually hurt someone. She’s never had a ‘near miss’ whatever that is, to hurt someone. But could she? Yes.

They made a mistake.

I believe that we should reserve judgment until all of the facts come out. I will say that if this gentleman required two carers it's likely because he needs eyes on him at all times, and that appears to have not been what happened here.

However, people are often held legally accountable in situations where they "made a mistake" that injured or killed someone.

And the point is, those that are having near misses, are not having those misses documented. They are brushed under the carpet. There are lies written on reports so I’ve seen them with my own eyes.
Do you think schools, Council, social services and the police don’t lie? It is entirely possible that your sister has done those things and that somebody has covered up for. Again something I’ve seen with my own eyes.
A schizophrenic mentally unwell person was brandishing a knife in the park locally arrested, charged. The Council claim claimed that no point was anybody’s life at risk.
Amazing that they were able to know that.

Any mobile person with LD?

Maybe, they like animals. And leaving the house.

Am I misunderstanding or do you work with/around people with learning difficulties and/or mental health problems?

Maybe we should just let the grown-ups with the full facts looking into what happened rather than start a witch hunt based on facts from dubious sources?

Two decades and a bit ago I was a carer working with LD, a job I loved. Even then it was a bloody Cinderella service, outsourced to companies making a huge profit. Most of us were students with no real training, we had a car for the unit which one young persons mobility vehicle via DLA. The owners of this (and a few other homes in the group), used to do a massive netto (as it was then)shop every 2 months and arrive with it at dinner time and everyone had to interrupt what we were doing to lug it in. Weekend lunch menu, no joke, could be a cup a soup and 2 slices of bread. I remember being expected to go in and paint bedrooms etc as a keyworker.

I loved that job and since then I have been a qualified nurse on a cardiac unit for a short while and the retrained to be a social worker and have worked in child protection for nearly 20 years. I would like to think that I have done my best for the children and families I have worked with. However, every time the system fails for our most vulnerable, most of us working in these professions think, there for the grace of god....

Child protection and other services are not an exact science, we balance risk and sometimes it goes horribly wrong. What people need to understand is that decisions are usually made at a higher level than the actual named worker, and these are financial. Since 2012, we are increasingly drowning. For example I have had to transport disregulated young people by myself to placements during which I have been kicked, had my hair pulled, they have tried to smash up my car whilst I am driving on the motorway. As a team, we often have a 50% vacancy rate but because early support has been totally eroded, our referral rate is massively increased.

So whilst in may seem very easy in this day and age to demand individuals are targeted, maybe try and understand the bigger picture. If we want our most vulnerable to be looked after properly, then there needs to be an honest conversation as a country about how this is funded and whether it should be outsourced to private companies for profit.

Not anymore thank goodness I got sick to death of the bullshit .

It’s a miracle there aren’t more of these incidents.

Again, can we please stop focusing on the facts and what we actually know, and concentrate instead on ill-informed simplistic knee-jerk reactions based on what might have happened (but didn't), and making suggestions that will obviously do more harm than good overall.