To think carers should be jailed

[InBedBy10]

That man who threw that poor child into the alligator enclosure is said to be severely mentally disabled. He was out with 2 carers who clearly weren't watching him when this happened. Witnesses have said they were on their phones. AIBU to say they should be charged for this incident?

To be honest this is not the first time i have heard about carers being totally negligent and getting away with it. Instead the care company they worked for was sued. Which will probably happen here. But i think its totally wrong that the people directly responsible can walk off into the sunset with no repercussions. There needs to be more liability put on people in this position.

Ya definitely nbu

Oh I don’t know! It’s such a hard question. I think none of us public know the full details so it’s too hard to answer. You’ve obviously been told the carers were on phones, but is this true? We can’t give suggestion without knowing all the details. Such a sad situation.

I think we should reserve judgement until the facts are established by the investigation process. It's right to ask questions (including whether appropriate risk assessment was undertaken) but not to jump to conclusions.

Of course you’re unreasonable, you haven’t got the first clue what happened

how do people get thoughts like this? How did you read this story and decide you knew exactly what needed to happen?!

We don’t know the full details. If there was negligence on their part, I’m sure there will be consequences. But maybe it was negligence from the institution where the man lived if they didn’t do a risk assessment and didn’t put the right level of care or supervision in place. We just don’t know and shouldn’t speculate at this point.

I don't think there is enough information for statements like this. I do wonder if he had any known propensity for violence, and if so, why the hell was a day out at the zoo necessary, full of little kids and dangerous animals.

I think if found at fault through being on their phones they should be fired and not allowed to be carers again. Maybe a criminal record is appropriate, but jail… why? The man may be generally very placid and have not shown signs of aggression before, we have no idea if they could have reasonably anticipated this happening. There’s not enough info available to damn them like this

It’s already very hard to recruit carers for adults with learning disabilities - it’s a really tough job, can involve a lot of personal care/lifting of fully grown heavy people, can involve danger if the adult attacks, and is badly paid.

So adding on legal liability that could put you in prison for making a mistake or a moment of inattention would make it even harder to get staff which has consequences for a great many people.

You have absolutely NO idea what’s happened here!!!! There could have been so signs or he could have precious dangerous behaviors that should not have been ignored.

There are too many questions still to be answered.

Whoever completed the risk assessment and decided it was safe for these two particular carers to take this man to tthat location carries more responsibility than the carers IMO.

making low paid , poorly trained carers criminally liable is a ridiculous idea that will make the already pressured care system a million times worse.

It is definitely not the answer and is a knee jerk Ill thought out response

Without the details it’s impossible to know. Had the carers received relevant and up to date training? Was there a proper risk assessment in place? Was there a behaviour support plan in place? Were there clear policies around mobile phone use? Had all of these been adequately shared with the carers?

If the carers were going against their training, the risk assessment, the behaviour support plan or their workplace policies then yes, they should be held accountable and investigated for their part in this tragedy. However, if these things were not in place or were not adequate then the fault should lie with the care organisation/ provider as they have a duty to ensure these are in place where necessary and that any carers are aware of them.

That said, it could also be that all of the correct paperwork and training was in place and that the carers were following this in which case nobody may be liable. A carer being on the phone doesn’t necessarilly constitute negligence, we don’t know when or why this adult had 2 carers with him. It may be he was only known to need 2:1 carers in the case of an emergency (eg: seizure) or for specific situations such as personal care. It may be that having one carer with him but the second away and on the phone wasn’t going against the risk assessment in that moment. It’s very likely that this was a completely unexpected and unpredictable occurrence and so it may be that nobody had considered it as part of the risk assessment process and, if there had been no prior incidents of him grabbing out at children in the public that may not be anybody’s fault. Unfortunately caters aren’t mind readers and some outcomes just can’t be predicted or prevented without the benefit of hindsight.

You have no idea what the circumstances were. I'm so sick of this reactive attitude of wanting heads to roll without having the full information of what actually happened. The general public is becoming more and more of a baying mob.

“They were on their phones”

I wish we could stop with this ridiculous narrative. It’s one used to berate (mainly) women with caring responsibilities, suggesting these two carers were sitting scrolling through insta and letting the guy just get on with it. If they were on their phones there could be any number of things they were doing which were about their job.

They made a mistake. Presumably they have looked after him before, and presumably he has never done anything like this before.

Caring for a disabled person is a really difficult job. As well as the actual caring part of it, you spend the entire time navigating a system set up to be incredibly difficult, with barriers and triggers everywhere. And you do it all for minimum wage, often with very poor support from your employer. On top of that you want to hold them responsible for situations like this? The message that will send is, nobody should ever take on that job.

This! We don’t know what happened yet.

Can you get your title altered please to refer to the actual incident. The implication is that all Carers should be jailed which I find quite offensive.

I wonder what you do for work that it would be ok for someone with no knowledge of you, your responsibilities and skills to demand you were sacked or jailed based on internet gossip?

I work in the care industry. We're not low paid or poorly trained. We have to have qualifications and can make a decent wage with experience. But im not in England, maybe its different in your country.

And please explain how making ADULTS criminally liable for negligence causing serious harm or death is ridiculous? Mistakes happen, yes but some Mistakes are so bad there needs to be consequences.

Were you there? Did you see what happened? Or have you got your information from FB?

I think people should stop speculating unless they have the full facts.

So you don't really have any idea what happened, who was doing what etc

And on the basis of apparently, what you've heard and what someone has said, you want to jail people 🤔

Of course it is. Not unusual on here or amongst the wider public though Unfortunately such people walk amongst us and are allowed to do things like sit on juries.

So you were there standing right next to the carers and the man. Saw every minute detail of the lead up and outcome of the incident.
You are a fantastic witness and no doubt will be of great help.
Failing that, if you weren't there, why repeat and add to, even more drivel that is spreading across social media by people speculating and don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Someone posted on another thread on this topic that their child's carers were required by their employer to constantly document things on their work mobile phone, so let's just wait for the investigation before criminalising the carers, maybe?

Whatever happens in terms of criminal charges I personally think they should be referred to DBS for inclusion on the barred list which would prevent them from working with vulnerable adults again

(this being the lesser known barring side of the disclosure and barring service)

You are absolutely, 100% right. Thank you.