AIBU to think a man accused of throwing a child into a crocodile enclosure should not get bail?

[YourKeenOliveNewt]

Aibu to think the man who threw an unknown 3 year old into a crocodile enclosure shouldn't be out on bail?

If anyone could provide any insight into the reasoning behind why was granted bail I would be very interested to hear it.

AIBU: He's a danger to society
AINBU: Innocent until proven guilty

On the news yesterday it was said that at least one crocodile attacked him

My brother has a cognitive disability, he’s in his 30s but has a mental age similar to 18 months/2 year old. He is pretty much non verbal, however he can say odd words. He can’t read or write and loves most things a small toddler would love. He would absolutely hate staying at home and not being able to go out and about on fun day trips, holidays etc. He’s currently at Disneyland Paris on holiday, where he has an Annual Pass. He regularly goes to zoos, theme parks, tourist attractions etc. Whilst yes he enjoys swimming, he’d get incredibly bored very quickly if he didn’t have regular outings to these sorts of places. Covid was awful for him because most places were shut. If he’s stuck at home for weeks on end his behaviour deteriorates and he becomes harder to manage. He needs outside stimulation and variety to thrive. He loves holidays, travelling on different modes of transport, eating out at restaurants etc too. He uses photos on his iPad to communicate and will find a photo of a place he’s been and wants to go again and will say ‘Please’ as a way of communicating that he wants to go again.

Whilst it’s true that some people with cognitive disabilities may prefer to be at homes, just as many thrive being out and about doing things. They love chatting or communicating with people and strangers, the same way a 1 or 2 year old will communicate with members of the public sometimes (smiling, saying odd words etc). I think it’s really important not to generalise people with disabilities and lump them all in together when actually each one is an individual person, with their own wants and needs, the same as the entire population are different and unique.

The only place I've read that the man was trying to be helpful 🤔 is on here. It's extremely unlikely if that were the case that the police would have arrested him for attempted murder.

Man somehow puts child in crocodile enclosure. Response: 'the system has failed him, we should all be outraged'

Man is given bail. Response: 'the system knows best, calm down everyone!'

Police can only hold people for 24hrs in custody, 36hrs max or another 3 days on a magistrates order. This person I assume does not have capacity so was released form police custody. That isn’t to say that the MH team haven’t sought their own orders to detain the person if they are deemed to be a high risk .

Thank you this is my experience

Im horrified at the suggestions that people with learning disabilities shouldn't go to zoos because they arent going to learn anything

Man somehow puts child in crocodile enclosure. Response: 'the system has failed him, we should all be outraged'Man is given bail. Response: 'the system knows best, calm down everyone!'(Meant to post this in relation to the quoted post, so re doing)

Thank you this is my experience
Im horrified at the suggestions that people with learning disabilities shouldn't go to zoos because they arent going to learn anything

You can visit a zoo without visiting a crocodile house. For some people with LD it will be fine, for those who might be overwhelmed, it is best to swerve. For the benefit of the individual, their carers and yes - other visitors.

More, less or the same level of horrified at a three year old child being potentially disabled, seriously injured and traumatised by the outcome of an encounter with a stranger at the zoo?

You are doing exactly that on MN 🤣

Fairly close yes

So are you able to tell us any more?

Not really, the OP was saying people with cognitive disabilities shouldn’t be allowed in zoos etc as they have the potential to be a danger, I’m just pointing out it’s not just people with cognitive disabilities who throw small children into zoo enclosures. Therefore we should ban all groups that pose a risk 🤷‍♀️. Statistically a child has a greater risk of being thrown into a animal enclosure by someone without cognitive disabilities than someone with them, so why are we picking on those with cognitive disabilities.

This is a tragic incident and horrible for the little boy and his family, however we don’t know all the facts of what actually happened and are all just wildly speculating. This is an isolated incident and isn’t a regular occurrence, the same as when a mother threw her 3 year old daughter into a bear cage in 2022. It should be treated in the same way, in that we don’t suddenly start condemning great chunks of the population for one isolated incident.

Sorry I wasn't mean stay at home - my son is similar and does go out regularly but only to places that have been risk assessed for him and others. A zoo would be too risky for him as if he got startled he would run - and he might upset members of the public by grabbing their drinks ! If this man is 30 there surely must have been other incidents of impulsive dangerous behaviour that would have ruled out such an open setting as a zoo ? For my son and possibly for this man successful public outings depend on risk assessing in advance and building relationships with the staff so they know him - but again not really possible for this to happen in such a busy unstructured environment.

I haven’t heard that at all! All reports I’ve seen say the man purposely threw the child into the crocodile enclosure. That’s why he was arrested on suspicion of attempted murder.

How do they know it was on purpose if the man involved has not even been questioned?

That's not what the BBC says:

The toddler was attacked by at least one crocodile, the BBC understands, and was taken to hospital.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyege536n5o

If he is non verbal like my son, they will not get very far with questioning. My son doesn't use sign language or a talking Ipad either as these are above his level.

Surely you cannot throw something accidentally?

Eyewitness accounts.

I'm sorry but when does a murderer NOT have mental health issues? And yet, we're supposed to feel perfectly safe with someone who can't control their own actions or does it and doesn't know why or does it and enjoys it but hides behind a mental health issue.

What the hell are you talking about? The man in question has learning difficulties, needed 2 carers and doesn't have the capacity to be questioned by police. How is he hiding behind MH issues?

This isn't the first time something like this has happened. A few years back a young boy was thrown from the balcony of the tate modern and is still severely disabled from the attack by a man with autism.

It seems that questions need to be asked about whether it is right for potentially dangerous individuals to be taken to visitor sites. The risk to other members of the public should be more carefully considered, if that means less trips out for certain folks then so be it.

Does the disability or extent of learning disabilities matter? If they are a danger to the public a full risk assessment of should they even be there needs to be carried out.

Surely a parent should be able to take their child out to without worrying about another grown adult hurling them off a building or over an high steel fence into an enclosure of wild animals?

You do realise there is a difference between someone with mental health issues and someone with a cognitive disability? The two are wildly different. Whilst someone with a cognitive disability can additionally have a mental health condition, there has been nothing in the news to suggest this is the case in this instance.