Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

It is nonsense. Every time there is a thread about welfare the disabled jump on here with their "what about me?". It's almost as though they crave the attention they get. Those of us with with a bit of intelligence can understand that "welfare" isn't all about the disabled, and people are allowed to (try) to have an intelligent discussion without all the derailing from people who were never included in the original post. It's very, very, irritating.

and every time there is a thread about benefits, there's always at least several comments about disability benefits, motability etc of course disabled people/carers are going to respond to it.

They don't crave attention. They are just sick of the constant bashing on here. It is relentless, offensive, and tiresome. These threads come around like clockwork, usually on a weekend when someone is on the wine.

And it always descends into crap like "what is your PIP helping you for?" or has been seen on this thread... asking a person disabled from birth what she needs PIP for if she earns enough.... it show a total lack of understanding what PIP and various benefits are for. Yet disabled people are expected to suck it up and justify their finances and existence to people on here.

The benefits system is the worst thing that ever happened to this country. It made people lazy and afraid to get their hands dirty. People used to be proud to work for a living. Now they aspire not to.

tell that to the victorian era and the eras before and see what they say

You wont be saying that when you need them... and could one day.
Being able bodied is temporary.

Given the sky high incidence of real and genuine illness and disability though (as shown by rising rates of all the unfalsifiable illnesses like cancer, strokes, heart disease, heart attacks, MS, diabetes, Parkinson's etc) as well as indications that genuine mental illness is rising (deaths of despair eg suicides and drug overdoses are rising in tandem with increased benefit claims), does it not surprise you that you only know "a few" genuine claimants? Or does "a few" mean more than it sounds like it means? Genuine question, I'm not trying to be goady.

I have six friends on disability benefits and I know their back stories and they are all very genuine cases. I know of a further dozen or so people my own age (mid 40s) through friends, family and acquaintances who are also undeniable cases. Out of hundreds of people. But I only know of one person who is believed to be faking it by some of their own family members (and it's hard to know whether that's true - I've only met this person very briefly and they do genuinely have a health condition even if I don't know how bad it really is). I can just about accept that some people will know a few people who they might not believe to be genuine (even if I don't - well, only one), but it does seem odd when people don't know significantly more genuine claimants given how much verifiable illness and disability there is in society at the moment. Does this not seem odd to you? Do you not sometimes wonder whether some of the people who seem to be faking might be struggling with things they don't want others to know about, like trauma from child sexual abuse or continence problems for example? Some of them might just pretend they can't be bothered to work as what's the alternative?

I'm not in the UK but the entitlement age to receive superannuation increased between me starting work and retiring. No-one sent me, or anyone else, a letter. Somehow myself, and everyone else, managed to keep up to date with what was happening.

I had a "friend" was was a WASPI - she is no longer a friend, I couldn't be bothered listening to the whining.

You'd do well on facebook, the groups for people born and grew up in the 1940s/50s. They say all that over and over - and more.

"They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this." I don't agree with that, plenty of people work hard and struggle just to keep going, never mind those things you mention.

Please don’t pay attention to such posters. People like you should be supported. If anyone has a problem, it’s their problem.

I grew up in a working family and I work for a charity now. I think if you haven't spent time with or been exposed to it then it's easy to judge, but when people have grown up in foster care and had a chaotic traumatic childhood involving alcoholism, sexual abuse etc., then it's fair that need compassion and support. The problem isn't the people, it's that the system has been stripped back with higher thresholds for support, less early intervention services, less support to get into work. If the only support on offer is benefits, and you haven't experiened the self esteem, inclusion, pride and comfort and resilience that comes in self sufficiency, then what do you expect? People can still learn self sufficiency though, but highly likely they need therapeutic support first.

Apparently it was 54% in Scotland and yes, about 1/3 in England. According to this guy who's an academic at least. I think I've seen the same figure reported in one of the broadsheets too.

https://gerryhassan.com/blog/the-rise-fall-and-rise-again-of-council-housing-across-scotland-and-the-uk/

I don't know what to make of your kids' attitudes. It doesn't seem right, I agree, but at the same time, with there being fewer and fewer jobs, there are probably going to be more and more people who can't support themselves through employment. Maybe it's better if those that don't want to work get to choose not to? Until the economy adjusts and there are opportunities for most again.

Christian and Muslim communities with their strong values of compassion will pick up supporting people when the welfare cuts come.

To be fair though, re your daughter, was it LeicesterDad? She will have to apply full time for jobs if she isn't actively working and doesn't have a disability that qualifies her to not have to look. Even if she doesn't intend to get any of them its probably going to be like having a job, but with far worse pay. That's how I understand unemployment benefits to work anyway. I haven't experienced them for more than a month or two a long time ago.

It sounds realistic and resilent.

Thankfully we're a more understanding and empathetic society now. For the grace and all that. Cop on.

The Motability car system definitely needs to be ended, it's an absolute joke, use your benefit money to buy a decent roadworthy car a few years old and maintain it yourself.

You clearly know nothing about Motability so why choose to comment on it ? It’s only the very most disabled who are on the enhanced rate of PIP mobility allowance who qualify. They pay over their mobility allowance for the lease period and have to hand the car back at the end, so the car is never theirs. The actual provision of the car doesn’t add anything to the benefit bill because that person would be getting the allowance anyway, so what’s your objection ? That it’s been made easier for a severely disabled person who might not otherwise have much mobility to get out and about, and possibly work ? Many do.

Motability is a charity and the business side works with car manufacturers to source cars a discount prices and they’re sold on at the end of the lease period to fund the scheme. Any advance payment or adaptations needed to enable the person to drive has to be paid upfront.

I’m not even going to dignify the rest of your post with an answer because it seems everyone on MN knows someone to such an extent, that without medical qualifications and no knowledge of their claim to benefit, they can categorically state that there’s nothing wrong with them. It’s ridiculous.

And referring to disabled people as ‘the bad back brigade’ ? Really ?

😂😂😂

Almost all of these threads end up discussing disability benefits and from the ones I’ve been involved with so far, many posters who have no knowledge of what it’s like to live with a disability, or to provide care for someone disabled, feel entitled to ‘jump on’ and spout the most outrageous and ignorant nonsense about disabled people and the benefits designed to support them. What do you expect disabled people to do - just say ‘ah well’ and scroll past ?

I’ve been a disability outreach worker for over twenty years and outside of MN l can honestly say that, thankfully, I’ve never experienced these kinds of attitudes towards disabled people in real life. I’ve certainly never experienced the kinds of people who populate these threads - feeling entitled to know everything about a person’s disability, so they can judge whether or not they’re ‘worthy’.

And it also only seems to be those on MN who know benefit claimants who seem willing to admit to anyone who asks, that they’re cheating. The majority of the claimants l’ve dealt with are very private and don’t discuss their benefits with anyone who doesn’t need to know they’re claiming. Judging by some of the ignorance shown on these threads, they clearly have good reason.

Maybe, maybe not, but l can tell you something that will happen. If the proposed cuts to PIP go ahead many disabled people will lose their entitlement to the standard rates, and associated carers allowance, meaning they will no longer be able to self fund the care they need. These people will inevitably turn to social care, which is a LOT more expensive. It will push an already broken system beyond its limits and not a penny will be saved. It’s robbing Peter to pay more to Paul.

I asked a question on another recent thread. It was to poster vehemently insisting that abolishing the standard rate of PIP was the only way forward. I explained how PIP supports significant needs at standard rates and asked how they proposed to support those people once benefit had been withdrawn. The answer was ‘Why would we need to support them ?’ And that just about sums up the attitude of some. No appreciation of the fact that you can cut the support, but the need remains.

Honestly it’s people with genuine disabilities and care needs who should be the most outraged by this.

They’re the ones being tarred as scroungers and being made more vulnerable by the actions of the lazy and the greedy.

So you didnt read...

Come back when you read the OP as you are really struggling here.

I don't believe people on these threads who seem to "know" that some people are getting e.g. £70k on benefits - it's probably that they have read an article in the Daily Mail or something.
There were articles claiming families were getting thousands per month in benefits a while back but what these didn't explain is that the majority of that amount was going to a fat cat private landlord in housing benefit and that the family itself actually had little to live on.

The idea that people actively choose to live on benefits is as old as the hills and, if it is such a good "life choice," why don't the people complaining about it simply give up their jobs and join in??

If they did, they would soon realise that for the vast majority a life on benefits is not an easy one and is not something they are choosing but rather it is a necessity due to circumstance.

why though, you’re 81! You’ve paid in your whole life. You can ease off now it’s not shameful