Welfarisation has made people utterly entitled and unable to take responsibility for themselves and their families.

[hagchic]

I grew up in a working class family. The values I was taught were that you stood on your own two feet and it was no one else's job to do what you could do for yourself.

If you were hurt, you were expected to get up and go and clean yourself up - and stop whining about it unless it was actually serious. If you were ill, you went to bed and if you were lucky some magic lucozade appeared.

If you were sad, then you were sad. If life was unfair then that was just how life was and you needed to deal with it.

You never ever sought charity or took benefits when you were able to work or put up with less. You lived to your own means, not to what you saw on TV or at school - and if you wanted that lifestyle it was up to you to get it.

Today everyone has the expectation that someone must help them, that they are obliged to help them - even before they have made any attempt to actually do the work of helping themselves. They expect luxuries like holidays, pets, new clothes and treats when they do nothing to earn this.

I think self sufficiency is a value that needs to return to our society.

I’m sorry you can’t read as fast as I can.

I wish you well.

I was raised the same way. But it doesn't mean I don't see the value in a state supporting its most vulnerable. I knew someone who was raised to be a lady and therefore chose genteel starvation over begging. I'd rather claim what I'm entitled to, live and not be a lady. I also nearly died as a child, because free at source healthcare didn't come in until I was in school, and my mother couldn't afford the Dr/hospital fee.

I don't see "utterly entitled people unable to take responsibility" for themselves/their families. I see people teetering on the edge of poverty, working multiple jobs (combined with UC) trying to earn enough to pay rent and bills.

All these benefits bashing threads should really be conversations about why the UK seems unable to create an attractive environment to businesses (excluding the overseas giants they allow to get away with not paying taxes) and how we can turn back the damage done by expecting everyone to go to university, which contributed to the decline in entry level jobs which allowed people to work their way up. We should also look at why there's been no real pay rises in over 20 years, yet the cost of everything has gone up, as have employer expectations, who want someone skilled, with 10+ years of experience, for an entry level salary.

Yes, there really are many families who have a generational cycle of benefits and no disabilities, you probably just don't know them. I've known a lot, in some areas it's the social norm. Some are just basically not particularly well educated, others choose the life.

Whenever disability is brought up so dramatically on threads like this it derails it. Cue pile on and the original topic never gets discussed. Be honest, do you really think someone saying "so I should have been left to die" or words to that effect is interested in a discussion?

Resilience is a double edged sword, I was quite interested in seeing how the discussion panned out, but as usual it's off the rails we go!

Why do parents earning 60k need child benefit...especially if they put it into a savings account?
Just because someone pays more tax than they get in benefits it doesn't mean they shouldn't have it.

Disagree. There have always been a small minority who refuse to take responsibility for themselves.

Having spent a lot of time with young people most have a drive to be valued members of society. They want to work, they want to be healthy, they want to succeed.

Part of being a functional society involves supporting those less fortunate - I think a lot of people confuse need/want when they are judging from the outside.

So you were referring to people borrowing money and being in debt? It’s a shame you weren’t clearer to begin with, you were referencing more being unwell and using services.

Just waiting to hear about the jet setting friends who claim ‘benefits’ and holiday in the Seychelles and take champagne with their dinner!!!

Don't post your divisive little essay in AIBU if you can't take the heat.

Is that chip on your shoulder getting heavy to carry ?

I agree op. I am a child of the 70s. I am an only child because my parents couldn’t afford another child. I grew up in a council flat (tower block). Both my parents worked long hours to provide a comfortable standard of living for us. They encouraged me to do my best at school and taught me that education and qualifications would allow me opportunities that they did not have. They lived within their means and saved for the luxuries, things that by today’s standards are considered basic, think carpets, curtains, washing machine. We did not have a car, our tv was rented through radio rentals. We didn’t get a landline phone until I was 7. Most of the other families that I grew up around had similar values and benefits were only claimed in real hard times when there was no other choice. Self sufficiency was valued and those who were willing to help themselves had the support of a close community. Those who through choice did not try and help themselves were frowned upon.

😂😂😂 bonus points if they get their nails and lips done. And have turkey teeth. Even the blokes.

Naw. I wheel them.

Your experience is based on a very different time . Years ago a couple of 18 year olds who were working class could get married , buy a house and support a family on their wages . It wasn’t easy but it was possible. Now it’s practically impossible to buy a house with most working class jobs where I live . And now a lot of people who are technically working class are highly educated. Walk into a big supermarket and you will find people with all sorts of degrees doing a minimum wage job because they couldn’t get a job in their own field .

You don’t have to like or admire someone to not want them to die 🤷‍♀️

Most ‘help’ is purely there to allow people to function and be healthy.

Ok, thank you for minimising my contribution.

Yes. Resilience is a bit of a double edged sword. I think I've got quite a bit of it. But if you think it's not quite interesting enough, i will bow out of the debate. 🫤😳

Oh, I know. I grew up in poverty and I know a few teachers.

IMO the only way to even attempt to break the cycle is hands up not hands out.

I agree....every single time, it's like wait for it....BOOM.
God forbid.

If it were left to just have a discussion based on the actual thread title the conversation could be quite interesting... or on the other hand may have possibly ended after 2 or 3 pages.

Me doing what’s needed to take care of myself is claiming pip so I can stay in my job. And pay for help with things I cannot do for myself.

it also let me get an adapted car I couldn’t afford without it, and got me my BB. Which means I can get out of said car in a car park.

No they are not. They are 100% aimed at lazy work shy scroungers that work the system and can't be fucked to work because why the hell would they when you can get paid for doing sweet FA courtesy of the tax payers and this stupid goddam makes no logical sense system.

Well YABU for 'welfarisation'. 😬

What a load of nonsense. All this kicking the poorest. Mumsnet full of it at the moment.

Has someone being listening to Fartage’s drivel about how everyone on PIP is gaming the system and is just a bit sad with a touch of the anxiety blues.

But I’ve been told on this thread I shouldn’t have pip? So I would be out of work and stuck at home on UC and whatever all else? Never out the door independently.

and then I’d be a lazy work shy scrounger.

So this "welfareisation" you speak of didn't affect you and your family then. I'm assuming you were born after 1945, so how did you avoid this "welfareisation"?