To not want to invite my sister to my wedding?

[keepdrivingg]

Fully aware that this is a delicate topic on Mumsnet so I know I might be flamed here.

My fiancé and I are currently planning a child free wedding.

For context, we are both on our 20s with no kids of our own. None of our friends have children yet either.

As such we’d like our reception to be child free in order to have a big bash where we can all freely drink etc without having to worry about any kids running around or knocking things over etc! I am also not generally a massive kid person (neither is partner!).

Anyway, as I said most people we know don’t have kids yet. The only real caveat to that is my dad has a much younger child. I have two brothers who are also in their 20s, dad got remarried a couple of years ago and as such now has a 2 year old.

Some additional info here is that I’m not massively close to dad and his idea of me spending quality time with sister is to babysit for free effectively. I question his and his wife’s parenting which involves essentially letting sister do what she wants so she doesn’t kick off. if we are ever all together at family events this usually involves my grandmother having an awful time trying to keep sister at bay whilst her parents do nothing. I love my grandmother dearly and therefore don’t want her attention taken up doing this on what she will view as my special day

Further context here is that when deciding about our wedding we agreed that it we wouldn’t mind family children attending the church ceremony. The reasoning being that they can then be in family pictures and be a part of the day. Then when we move to the reception this part will be adults only and kids will not follow along here. To add, dad’s wife’s parents have sister regularly and are happy babysitters, so not really an issue on the childcare side.

Anyway, dad has majorly kicked off. He said it’s completely unreasonable to not invite sister all day, she’ll be left out and upset and I’m being a horrible sister as it’s not fair to exclude her. We sort of went back and forth on this and he’s eventually said if she can’t come to the reception then they’ll all leave after the ceremony.

im hurt that he’s effectively chosen his younger daughter over me. I’d understand if she was say, 10, and would genuinely understand what’s going on and remember going home early, as well as knowing when to sit quiet etc. but at 2 all she’ll want to do is run riot and they will allow her to do so!

My fiancé has basically said stick to our guns and if my dad shows his true colours by leaving then we know where he stands in terms of valuing me and my wishes.

id like to know Aibu to follow through on this? Or should I give in?

Honestly, it’s giving of really strong jealous vibes. The only child who would be invited to the wedding and your so against it. There’s not a strong reason and I don’t agree with ‘it’s my wedding’ when decisions affect others.
your putting your dad to the test to see ‘who he will pick’ and he’s picking his younger daughter. You’re putting him in a difficult situation rather than letting her come and everyone just enjoy their day. It’s always people without kids who have this rule whereas those with them don’t see them as the same catastrophic disruption.

interesting you’d rather her cause the issues you’ve listed at the actual ceremony, rather than the party. Again that all links into my first sentence.

OP didn't want the bratty sprog at the ceremony either, but offered it as a sop to her father after he started to kick off about the wedding being
(gasp)
child free.
(gasp)
That means, without children.

Yes, even his.

Not all parents have the good sense to make arrangements for their small children to be taken off to bed at a reasonable hour, though. Some parents routinely let their toddlers stay up as long as they want, creating havoc and tantrumming, until they collapse unconscious in an exhausted heap about midnight. My DD would have been determined to stay awake and not miss the fun at that age until the early hours if I had let her. It sounds like the OP’s DF and wife may well fall into this camp.

It’s really sad that you could choose to have a lovely day and let her come and your dad be here with ALL of his family but are making a choice not to. That will be the story that is told. That you made him choose
as a pp has said, there’s obviously a damaged relationship here.
if the wedding isn’t too soon, invest in
some counselling, I think it could do you the world of good rather to see a professional as I’m pretty confident they’ll help you see this in a better way and won’t tell you ‘it’s your day’

im pulling the card of -
so many would give anything to have their dads there, stop creating drama and stop putting him in An awful position and have a lovely wedding it will be much better with him there and your sister than without him

OP, the obvious solution is for your dad to attend and his toddler to stay at home with her mother. But it sounds like they aren't amenable to this.

WHY people get SO offended about children not being invited to weddings, I'll never know. While I did have them at mine, I completely understand why someone wouldn't want them. Weddings are very obviously grown-up events that are very boring for children and very important to the couple, not to mention expensive, and there is much opportunity for children to ruin them.

I can't imagine taking a child-free wedding invitation as a personal slight against me or my child.

I think its quite reasonable to not want children at your wedding. But I do think if she is not invited to the reception, its reasonable for your dad to leave at that point. You say you are not massively close to him, and you would like your gran to be able to enjoy the reception. So him leaving with your sister seems like a good idea.

I think it would be mean not to include her in the ceremony as little girls love brides and to let her be in some family photos. I would compromise on ceremony and the drinks reception and then she’s taken off (by her mum or other grandma) before you sit down to eat. Your dad should want to be there for your entire wedding but his loss if he isn’t.

Well then you have your answer don't you.

You have chosen to prioritise your grandma's needs over your father's. Good for you, stick to your guns; if necessary tell your father why. And it's nice that your fiance has your back on this.

But OP says that her sis is badly behaved because the parents don't put any boundaries in place, such as "not believing in bedtimes." It's not wrong for OP not to want her ceremony or reception ruined by a shrieking, badly controlled child.

@Halloumiqueen " It’s always people without kids who have this rule whereas those with them don’t see them as the same catastrophic disruption."

Nope, I have children, we were the first in our friendship group to get married and no one had children so it wasn't an issue for us. I have never taken my children to any wedding even when invited.

The last wedding we went to the bride and groom had their two children there and about 15 others all 8 and under. They were running around the graves outside the church, parents doing nothing. Then destroying the venue, playing with the centre pieces on the table which has those water beads in, hiding behind the huge curtains and ended up pulling one down off the rail. The staff were losing their shit, the DJ had to ask them all to stop running around at least 5 times. We left early because it wasn't a fun wedding but a totally hands off parenting wedding.

Trying to keep a toddler quiet in a church also comes with challenges. Personally I think the OP is mad for inviting a toddler to the ceremony, start as you mean to go on, no children. There is a babysitter available so it isn't like that would be an issue.

Yeah, exactly.

Oh hello! The dad's wife has joined the thread!

Did you miss the bit about the toddler being out of control and wanting to protect Grandma from having to do the parenting that dad & wife can't be bothered to do?

She’s two. She’s not going to have a clue what’s happening

This is the most ridiculous reply I’ve ever seen on here.

She needs therapy because she wants a child-free wedding?! Are you ok? Add to that the sole child she knows has proven to not be the best behaved at previous events.

She has been more than accommodating and I think you are wrong that most therapists would place the blame on Op here 🤣

I got bingo!

I think, given how young she is, its not unreasonable for her to leave after the ceremony because toddlers dont understand enough to be quiet and they wont remember and will probably need a nap mid afternoon

Sorry you're Dad is showing so little care and empathy for you on a significant milestone event. He has options of leaving his child with the maternal grandparents which is good enough when it suits his needs or her mother can take her home. He's wilfully choosing to hurt you which must be difficult to realise. His toddler doesn't know what a wedding is and it sounds like the only people who want her there are her parents. This could effect his relationship with you, your siblings and his potential grandchildren, but that's his choice. He should be mindful of the consequences of his decisions next time he looks for last minute emergency child care from you. You may be an adult now, but your Dad should remember he is always your Dad and he has a moral duty to you as long as it doesn't cause anyone else significant harm which this won't. You aren't obligated to accommodate his life choices or ego.

Bit of an aside but the idea toddlers of 2 are kicking off in a family gathering is an alien one to me
They can need to be taken for walks including during the ceremony- which is the bit most likely to be interrupted- and need one adult with them constantly- but on the whole it's not usually anyone else's problem. Also would need to leave early-ish as tiredness sets in.
I'd query the idea he's ,'choosing her'
Why is it important to put him in that position? It's your wedding you can choose.

Your dad is really doing anything for a quiet life I think! It sounds as if his wife is bending his ear and they both fancy a night out but have to make a point. We have an adorable 2 1/2 year old grandchild who has firm parenting with boundaries in place. Would her parents take her to an evening wedding reception? Absolutely not as despite their best intentions she would be in full Duracell bunny mode! Stick to your guns - it’s your wedding and if they insist on going home after the reception, that’s their choice. I bet you though, that the other grandparents will be babysitting and they’ll turn up.

Woof.

I am open to listen to some of the comments here suggesting alternatives or why I may wish to reconsider, but this take is wild.

Who are you to say what will or won’t make my day lovely?

For what it is worth I have a therapist, one who affirms my decisions to stand up for myself when it is the right thing to do. In fact, when I next meet with her I might show her this comment so we can have a laugh!

My grandad (lovely grandmas husband) was my best friend in the world. He also helped look after me as a baby and we were two peas in a pod. He passed away 5 years ago and yes I would give anything to have him here. That does not negate any issues surrounding my father. For arguments sake, if I had been abused would you be saying “oh but someone who’s lost their dad would invite him”? No I didn’t think so

I was going to respond to this but I can see you’re the same person who posted the other comment I responded to. I don’t know who pissed on your corn flakes this morning but it feels like you’re projecting your own issues onto me 🤷🏻‍♀️

That’s okay don’t worry! Honestly if we had other kids involved I probably would’ve nicked it as it does sound ideal!

She’s two ffs. Tell him to wise up or stay away.

Op has stated several times that her father and his wife wont do anything to keep the sister quiet and behaving appropriately. So taking her out of the church, going for a walk or a run around etc just wont happen. They will simply assume that his mother (Lovely Grandma) will do it for them, thus ruining it for her.

ETA they also dont "believe" in bedtimes, so she will be allowed to keep going until she has the mad half hour full of tantrums and tears and then drops.

Whats with all the comments saying she's making him choose between his daughters, no she's not. The wedding is 5 minutes away. Their are grandparents willing and able to babysit. A 2 year old will not know what she's missing. A 2 year old will get tired and overstimulated. The bride wants to enjoy her day without worrying about the baby sister thats not too much to ask.