Inheritance vs helping out

[FizzyPopLove]

My mother died and left her five children her house in her will.

She said for one year, her eldest son, my brother, could continue living in the house. He lived with her when she was alive for a bit of rent. After that one year, it was to be agreed between us five siblings what should be done about the house.

It’s now been seven years. He still lives there rent free. We have not pressured him to leave the house so we can realise our inheritance. Perhaps we should. He has bought out one sibling so he now own 2/5s of the house.

The house is really not looked after. He doesn’t seem to see what needs doing. He is resistant to finding a smaller property that is more suitable for him living alone.

My ds has found a job in the same city as the house and I thought it might be a good idea for him to stay in the house too for six months whilst he passes his probation period, saves up some money etc. My brother is reluctant to enable this. He’s worried ds will stay for longer than 6 months. It’s a 3 bed house.

AIBU to be cheesed off? He’s saved up thousands of pounds by not paying rent or a mortgage and the rest of us siblings have all paid mortgages or rent for all of our working lives.

We have been really not pushy about realising our inheritance but I feel he could be open to helping out ds1 in this way?

A single man only needs a one bedroom flat.

No it doesn’t at all.

it means we have discussed the future of the house and what he wants to do but none of us have said we must sell the house and he must move out.

We have asked him if it’s too big, can he maintain it etc. He has said he isn’t not keen to move out.

He isn’t keen to move out, I mean. Double negative.

He has saved a lot of money. He’s still working. With his 2/5s he could get a nice 1 bed flat if he wanted to.

He has said he doesn’t want neighbours though. I don’t know what he’s envisioning.

This thread is not about selling the house, getting him to leave etc. it’s about enabling my ds to start a new job, get through probation period without paying rent.

So that other family members can benefit from our inheritance.

Op I think you need to be firm with him he’s had it long enough to himself without paying rent tell him straight your ds moves in or he’s buys you out. Don’t be too flexible he’s gained more than any of you from your mums will does he think he can stay until he dies while the rest of you keep paying mortgages I would be kicking off tbh it’s not like he’s in his early years he’s walking all over you.

I'm sure if you have a main home so your share is a 2nd property after 2 years any increase is liable for capital gains. Plus if you decide to move having a 2nd property makes you liable for the extra stamp duty too.

Can you not agree that he pays rent to the other owners (proportional based on his share)?

Then you get a bit of cash which can go towards your DC living expenses, or whatever you want to do with it?

I think you have all been very passive and acting as if it is HIS house.
You need to just get a bit tougher..."dear brother, it is not solely your property, and as one of the owners I am letting my son live in it for the foreseeable future.
If you wish to have sole possession of the house then we will need to discuss you paying fair market rent for the 3/5 ths you don't own . Or we can sell the property and you'd be able to buy your own then"

I really don't see what the problem is here...stop asking if he minds your son moving into what is just as much your house as his .

Brother should really have been paying rent (even if only nominal) whilst he stays in the house - although it's too late to do anything about this. The fact he hasn't and hasn't been maintaining the house in lieu of rent - he's had an easy ride. That's down to the Executors though and may be could be seen that they've disadvantaged the beneficiaries as a result.

If your other two siblings who are quite well off don't need to sell, could they buy you out of your share at current valuation so you can realise your inheritance. There must be things you would like to do around the house or holiday plans before you get too old to enjoy life.

Just seems you're the one that stuck in the middle.

I think when he bought out your sibling you should've sorted the rest. I would have been on it after a year tbh!

There are now 4 owners of this property (assuming all the legals have been done). You are each entitled to stay in the property and decide who lives there. I would advise brother your son is staying in a house that you part own and which does not have a tenancy agreement in place. If he does not like that other people can live there, it's really time to get the house on the market. It's equally time to say that if he wants to continue to live in the property, he needs to start looking after the place otherwise he is devaluing you and your siblings inheritance. My position would be different if he was paying rent to you and your siblings in which case no, your son cannot simply turn up and live there.

Also, depending on which country you are in, you should be paying the extra council tax on second homes. Have you all been doing that for the last 7 years?

England: Councils can charge up to 100% on top of the standard bill, with many English authorities implementing this double-rate.
Wales: Local authorities are permitted to charge premiums of up to 300% depending on the exact location.
Scotland: Similar council tax premiums on second homes apply, with charges often set at 200%

Are you all on the deeds OP? Are you tenants in common or joint tenants. What happens to each of the shares of the house if one of you dies?

Hopefully you've been reassured from the broad consensus on the thread that DS moving in for a bit is a reasonable thing to propose.

I suspect your issue is more about whether DB is going to see his arse enough to make the situation unpleasant or not, which is harder for MN to advise you on. The fact that he didn't stop himself from saying he was afraid DS wouldn't move out after the agreed 6 months, when he's stayed 6 years and clearly intends to continue, does make me worry that he's got used to thinking of the place as his and only his. Because otherwise he'd realise how cheeky that was. It's possible DB would feel sufficiently put upon that he makes the experience unpleasant enough to outweigh the benefits of free rent to DS, even if he doesn't mean to. You know them both, you're better qualified to say whether DB might do that and DS would cope with it.

The only other thing I can think of is to suggest, as DB has funds, he could instead pay you quarter rent for your share, starting now, and you can use that money towards DS rent. But that won't be as financially advantageous as him just living in the house.

Can the others buy you out?

Sounds like you need to speak with your siblings, he either needs to pay rent to the other 3 siblings or accept the house is being sold . He cant expect help from his family and then not even help his nephew . He is a free loader.

@FizzyPopLove you part own the house so you can decide who stays there.

To keep the peace, tell your DB it will definitely be for 6 months and sort the rest out once he’s in and living there for a few months.

If he doesn’t allow this, then say okay the alternative is to release your equity on the house so that you can afford to help your DS out as at present your share in your mother’s home is of absolutely no benefit to you which is not what your mother wanted.

I think you are on a hiding to nothing trying to insist that your son moves in with his uncle. It simply won’t work out as a living arrangement if your brother is reluctant to let your son stay. You have to either accept the situation as it is or try and force your DB out in order to get your share of the proceeds from the house.
Wills and inheritance can cause so many problems. Both mine and my DH’s parents’ estates have caused us terrible trouble, both taking years to sort out.
My advice would be not to push the idea of your son moving in. It’s not fair, I know, but these things rarely are.

I wouldn't have your son staying there.
Not a good move. Get legal advice on this. Get him.out. Sell the house. Give him his share of the.money.

As an adult he should be capable of finding somewhere else to live

Yeah, I'd be miffed at this too.

Home ownership issues aside, I'd be upset that my brother wasn't being more supportive of my ds when it sounds like this new job/city move is a big deal for him. I can see why it would irritate you that your ds may have to take on a lease, pay a deposit, get tied in to a rental agreement that will probably be slightly more costly as it's a short term let, while he sees if the job pans out; meanwhile your bro is living rent free in the same city in a house you partially own!

Have you tried have a frank/beseeching convo with your bro?! Not sure how old your ds is, but if he's young/just starting out in his career, could you say something along the lines of this is a big move/big deal for him, I'd really appreciate it if you could support him for this 6 month period and once we know if he's staying in the job, we'll help him make other arrangements. Point out that living with his uncle would probably not be ds's first choice either and he'll be happy to move on to his own space once he has more job security. You could also say that his(/your) finances are tight and this would really help him out initially. If he's super resistant, I wouldn't be afraid to say I have to say, this sticks in the craw a little given the fact I do own part of this house too and I'm asking for my ds to be able to use it, and I've always been relaxed about the house situation since mum passed. What do your other 2 siblings who own the house think?

Is your bro poss ND? I only ask as the resistance to share the space reminds me of a similar situation we had with a family member who said they couldn't share and it was linked to them being ND, I think. The resistance to move out and move on generally strikes me as potentially ND too. But I could be barking up the wrong tree, and he's just enjoying an easy life! It would just maybe inform how I'd deal with the issue/how much I'd force it.

The whole house ownership issue generally sounds messy. As others have said, him buying your sibling out if he doesn't really own the house, doesn't really work, and f he's just sent some money to one sibling to notionally buy them out, I'd be a bit nervous about how this would all play out if something happened to him/one of your other siblings - it could get messy and expensive to untangle it all! Perhaps when the ds issue has settled down, you could say it's playing on your mind and you'd like to resolve the paperwork one way or the other. You could possibly seek some advice from a solicitor so you know where you stand before your broach that later convo.

"if you're not prepared to let me have use of my share of my house, you need to buy me out. Your choice"

Yes, starting the process as soon as possible. I have no idea what rights he has after 7 years he had plenty of time to put himself on the housing listing. He might put up a fight and all the inheritance will be caught up in legal fees at the end.
This happened with my DGM home many years ago with my aunt, she kept the house in the end.
He’s not caring for the property keeping up maintenance etc. one of you will probably end up with him on your sofa.
Mark out your spot for DS with tape.

Why do you think he hasn’t proposed moving to a pokey one bed flat? Because he doesn’t want to go from a house (presumably detached) to a flat, like most people. He has been living the life of Riley for a long time, partly enabled by you. This IS linked to your DS because him moving into the house whilst your DB is there just won’t work because DB doesn’t want him there. Your son doesn’t need to be in that atmosphere especially in his probationary period.

See a solicitor to force a sale.

Only other thing I can think of OP is could he buy you out of some of your share? You mention he's got savings, but not enough to cover your 20%. If he bought say half of it, that money would then potentially be available to assist your DC starting out? If you're unwilling to force DS staying and/or he's going to be a dick about it either on purpose or because he can't help himself, maybe worth considering.

Your brother is a selfish bully.

You have 1/5 stake in it, so you have every right to want your DS to stay in it for 6 months.

I think you should go to see your brother and politely explain the situation.

Surely you can reason with him face to face?

There lies the answer then, he either buys you out or it gets sold - end of

I don't think that the DB has been living the life of Riley at all.
Most men who don't fly the nest and remain living with their mother when the rest of the siblings fly off to enjoy their freedom generally have mental health issues, likely ND in this case although the OP hasn't answered the question posed whether her DB has mental health issues but reading between the lines he probably has.
This puts a new perspective on the situation. The fact that he is living alone, no family of his own and probably no friends in a run down house tells us that he is not living the life of Riley at all.
If he is ND, he will have great difficulty living with another person so it is unfair to expect him to do so. He will also have a very rigid routine and breaking this routine, in particular moving out of a house in which he has lived for 40 years would be highly traumatic. In addition, living in a one bedroom flat close to others would be highly distressing as he probably has issues communicating with others. I think that the situation is far more complex than on first sight.